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  1. #1
    McSlaggart McSlaggart is offline
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    Dunkurk and Churchill : What is a military victory?

    I watched the movies Dunkirk and Churchill (both good films) and one got the impression that a narrative of a victory of sorts was snatch from defeat.

    My personal view on the matter is that it was a terrible defeat apart from all the loss of life the British handed the Germans a lot of military hardware that they needed for the rest of the war. Their is no shame in a defeat such as the "Siege of Jadotville" As for victory



    Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one other such victory would utterly undo him.

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  2. #2
    tonic tonic is offline

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    The successful evacuation was the "victory".

    Saving your arse when all appeared lost will always feel like a victory.
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  3. #3
    gleeful gleeful is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSlaggart View Post
    I watched the movies Dunkirk and Churchill (both good films) and one got the impression that a narrative of a victory of sorts was snatch from defeat.

    My personal view on the matter is that it was a terrible defeat apart from all the loss of life the British handed the Germans a lot of military hardware that they needed for the rest of the war. Their is no shame in a defeat such as the "Siege of Jadotville" As for victory



    Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one other such victory would utterly undo him.

    Wikipedia
    Dunkirk was propaganda. Losing all those troops would have been a blow to moral but it wouldnt have changed the outcome of the war.

    A number Id love to know: how many of the troops saved at Dunkirk fought again in D-Day.
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  4. #4
    Herr Rommel Herr Rommel is offline
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    The first of many mistakes by Hitler, The BEF would have been crushed on the beaches if he had allowed the tanks to continue to advance,
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  5. #5
    McSlaggart McSlaggart is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Rommel View Post
    The first of many mistakes by Hitler, The BEF would have been crushed on the beaches if he had allowed the tanks to continue to advance,
    Without checking I think the German generals was worried about their supply lines being to long.
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  6. #6
    gleeful gleeful is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Rommel View Post
    The first of many mistakes by Hitler, The BEF would have been crushed on the beaches if he had allowed the tanks to continue to advance,
    I disagree. The BEF was defeated. Taking 200k prisoners would have been a waste of German resources. Better to let them go.
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  7. #7
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Rommel View Post
    The first of many mistakes by Hitler, The BEF would have been crushed on the beaches if he had allowed the tanks to continue to advance,
    I think at that point his heart wasn't in a crushing defeat of the British BEF, he still hoped they would accept his conquest of mainland Europe and go for peace with Germany.

    It was a gamble, thankfully he lost and as you say, the first of many.
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  8. #8
    NativeWildCat NativeWildCat is offline
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    It didn't particularly mean anything in the grand scheme of things since the Germans had zero desire to invade Blighty anyway. The Germans just bloodied the nose of the aggressor, nothing more.
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  9. #9
    shutuplaura shutuplaura is offline
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    With the Dunkirk movie, it clearly says in the trailer, survival is victory. It is the theme if the movie.

    There is a truth there in this case, the evacuation allowed the army to rebuild much quicker than building a new army. I would personally consider it a successful evacuation following a heavy defeat.
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  10. #10
    gleeful gleeful is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by shutuplaura View Post
    With the Dunkirk movie, it clearly says in the trailer, survival is victory. It is the theme if the movie.

    There is a truth there in this case, the evacuation allowed the army to rebuild much quicker than building a new army. I would personally consider it a successful evacuation following a heavy defeat.
    By the time DDay happened the Nazis were virtually defeated by the Soviets anyway.
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