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Thread: Michael Collins & The Economy

  1. #11
    Politics.ie Royalty toxic avenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfkf1
    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger
    Don't know whether it's true, but it would have been unworkable, Connacht would have sunk.
    Perhaps, but it may have benefitted a city like Galway, and it may have helped the province to have local Government.
    No, until the 1960s Connacht was haemorrhaging young people like water through a sieve, the place was destroyed. Where my father grew up, he was the last person left from his school year, which everyone left at 14, only a year later. Then he left too. That was Connacht. There was no hope.

  2. #12
    Politics.ie Regular merle haggard's Avatar
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    right so despite your pointing out the current political system wrecked the place , you also oppose an alternative to that system ? Is it not possible if things had been done differently connacht might have been better off ? would connacht people being directly empowered to look after connacht not have been better for connacht ?

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  3. #13
    Politics.ie Royalty toxic avenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merle haggard
    right so despite your pointing out the current political system wrecked the place , you also oppose an alternative to that system ? Is it not possible if things had been done differently connacht might have been better off ? would connacht people being directly empowered to look after connacht not have been better for connacht ?
    No, Leinster and Munster would have possibly worked, but Connacht couldn't, it had neither the numbers of people, the resources, nor the infrastructure. The idea that it could have been economically self-sufficient at any time after independence until recently is simply unrealistic. It would have had to have been heavily subsidised. I speak as someone whose family are all from Connacht and Donegal, if I thought even today that such a system would redress the massive inequality of regional fortunes since the boom then I would support it.

  4. #14
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    Re: Michael Collins & The Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by pfkf1
    I wasn't sure which forum this should go in, but as it has to do with "The Big Fellow" I decided to put it in the history forum.

    I'm just after finishing reading a book on the man, and a point that was made in it was about his economic outlook for Ireland, his vision was that Ireland would have become a federal state that would have been broken down into 4 federal states each province being one.

    Each federal area would have set their own economic terms, each area would have been interdependent on each other but at the same time in competition with one another to get the best investment from abroad and within Ireland.

    That is about the outline of it, I found it an interesting concept, would be interested to hear what people think.
    Radical for its time, he saw the absolute need for outside investment and competition for the new state to survive. The polar opposite of his nemesis De Valera. We all know the result and how long it took to roll back.

  5. #15
    MFW
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    Sorry for going off topic, but I'd like to ask a question concerning Michael Collins that hardly deserves a new thread.

    Personal preference and all that aside, would it be correct to say that Collins is more popular than de Valera? I read Diarmaid Ferriter's book on Dev, and if I remember correctly he claimed that most historians are more sympathetic to Mick. Is it the same with the population in general?

    Odd question I guess, but I'm not Irish and I don't know where else to get this information...

  6. #16
    Politics.ie Regular Rocky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFW
    Sorry for going off topic, but I'd like to ask a question concerning Michael Collins that hardly deserves a new thread.

    Personal preference and all that aside, would it be correct to say that Collins is more popular than de Valera? I read Diarmaid Ferriter's book on Dev, and if I remember correctly he claimed that most historians are more sympathetic to Mick. Is it the same with the population in general?

    Odd question I guess, but I'm not Irish and I don't know where else to get this information...
    It's a very difficult question to answer because no one has ever done a poll on it. From general life I would say yes Collins is more popular then Dev. However it's impossible to know for sure.
    "Give us the future, we've had enough of YOUR past, Give us back our country, to live in, to grow in and to love..."

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    Well Dev has had both hatched-jobs and hand-jobs of biographys done on him,
    I can't think of anyone who has set out to paint Collins with an emphasis on his faults?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Quote Originally Posted by MFW
    Sorry for going off topic, but I'd like to ask a question concerning Michael Collins that hardly deserves a new thread.

    Personal preference and all that aside, would it be correct to say that Collins is more popular than de Valera? I read Diarmaid Ferriter's book on Dev, and if I remember correctly he claimed that most historians are more sympathetic to Mick. Is it the same with the population in general?

    Odd question I guess, but I'm not Irish and I don't know where else to get this information...
    It's a very difficult question to answer because no one has ever done a poll on it. From general life I would say yes Collins is more popular then Dev. However it's impossible to know for sure.
    though it is probably worth bearing in mind that Collins died young and possibly at his best (ala Monroe, Dean - not a great comparison but you get the point) whilst Dev lasted another 50 years, during which time he did a lot of good and a lot of bad, whilst we will never know what Collins would have achieved (or not) and so for this i think that he's given a more romantic popular place in Irish History than most and certainly Dev
    Enda Kenny on FF government: “We’re in this mess, not because Fianna Fáil policies have failed, but because they have succeeded.”

  9. #19
    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    He was wrong on that issue. Federalism might have had a necessary role in a United Ireland certainly, but with 2 constituent parts of the federation, rather than 4. We were very poor back then anyway and having more than that would have being wasting precious resources on bureaucracy.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFW
    Sorry for going off topic, but I'd like to ask a question concerning Michael Collins that hardly deserves a new thread.

    Personal preference and all that aside, would it be correct to say that Collins is more popular than de Valera? I read Diarmaid Ferriter's book on Dev, and if I remember correctly he claimed that most historians are more sympathetic to Mick. Is it the same with the population in general?

    Odd question I guess, but I'm not Irish and I don't know where else to get this information...
    Thats like asking why Jesus was more popular than Hitler.
    "Are you telling me that a computer, a robot and my wife would create a "natuarlly balanced" society? The consequences are too monstrous to contemplate.."
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