Register to Comment
Page 28 of 32 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 316
Like Tree109Likes
  1. #271
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
    Mercurial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    91,385

    Quote Originally Posted by diaspora-mick View Post
    And what exactly is that supposed to mean?
    "Marxism" means different things to different people.
    What criteria are you supposed to use to rate somebody as having done "a better job of implementing Marxism"?
    It means that Cuba more closely resembles what we would expect a Marxist society to look like than China does.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #272
    Taidhg Gaelach Taidhg Gaelach is offline
    Taidhg Gaelach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    12,534

    Quote Originally Posted by Calculusmadeeasy View Post
    A poor person in Cuba, is unlikely to have access to the "goodies" that a poor person can enjoy in Ireland.
    But then Ireland hasn't been under US sanctions for the last 40 years.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #273
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
    Mercurial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    91,385

    Quote Originally Posted by cricket View Post
    That's hardly saying much now, is it ?
    It's answering the question I was asked.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #274
    silverharp silverharp is offline
    silverharp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    15,063

    Capitalism creates more capital than anything approaching communism. Even back in the 60's and 70's the Russians had to steal US microchip designs. East Germany tried to produce microchips but they ended up with 1 chip which cost them about a million to make. surely the natural concentration of capital required for innovation is better than a society with no capital to concentrate. How many microchip design plants are there in your average sub Saharan, or middle eastern state?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #275
    diaspora-mick diaspora-mick is offline
    diaspora-mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    4,835

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    It means that Cuba more closely resembles what we would expect a Marxist society to look like than China does.
    And what exactly would "we" expect a Marxist society to look like ?

    In The German Ideology Marx wrote:
    "... in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic."

    So are you trying to tell us that more Cubans than Chinese hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening and criticise after dinner "without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic".

    Is that what you're trying to tell us ?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #276
    silverharp silverharp is offline
    silverharp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    15,063

    Quote Originally Posted by diaspora-mick View Post
    And what exactly would "we" expect a Marxist society to look like ?

    In The German Ideology Marx wrote:
    "... in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic."

    So are you trying to tell us that more Cubans than Chinese hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening and criticise after dinner "without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic".

    Is that what you're trying to tell us ?
    in morning you brain surgeon in afternoon you bus driver comrade
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #277
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
    Mercurial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    91,385

    Quote Originally Posted by diaspora-mick View Post
    And what exactly would "we" expect a Marxist society to look like ?
    That depends on its stage of development. Ultimately,a Marxist society would be a communist society, with the features associated with that term.


    Quote Originally Posted by diaspora-mick View Post
    In The German Ideology Marx wrote:
    "... in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic."

    So are you trying to tell us that more Cubans than Chinese hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening and criticise after dinner "without ever becoming hunter, fisherman, herdsman or critic".

    Is that what you're trying to tell us ?
    No.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #278
    IvoShandor IvoShandor is offline
    IvoShandor's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8,149
    Twitter
    @

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    It seems to me that if you're going to rely on definitions in the OED for your argument, you might first want to check whether there's a definition for "state capitalism" there, too.

    Woops:

    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...ate_capitalism
    So, explain how the two definitions can be reconciled? If "capitalism" is the "private" control of capital (not state by definition), if the "by private individuals for profit" part of the definition is inherent in the definition (and if not, then what exactly is Capitalism?) then how does it become the "public" control of capital if the word remains unchanged?. It's like saying "Catholic Protestantism". Both words have specific meanings on their own. Put together they make no sense...or not without torturous Ptolemaic sophistry .If we conclude that "capitalism" has a specific meaning (and not a vague woolly-anything you're having yourself cloud of meanings) and that-obviously-it pre-dated the use of the term "state capitalism", then it appears obvious that "state capitalism" was yet another piece of jargon invented mainly for inter-Marxist disputes which characterised the twentieth century, by theorists who wanted to take an anti-Soviet position by ascribing Capitalist characteristics to the autocratic Command Economy.
    The phrase is problematic, contentious and contested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    That depends on its stage of development. Ultimately,a Marxist society would be a communist society, with the features associated with that term.
    But not necessarily vice-versa. A communist society need not be Marxist.
    Last edited by IvoShandor; 16th May 2018 at 05:58 PM.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #279
    Mercurial Mercurial is offline
    Mercurial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    91,385

    Quote Originally Posted by IvoShandor View Post
    So, explain how the two definitions can be reconciled? If "capitalism" is the "private" control of capital (not state by definition), if the "by private individuals for profit" part of the definition is inherent in the definition-and if not, then what exactly is Capitalism?) then how does it become the "public" control of capital if the word remains unchanged?. It's like saying "Catholic Protestantism. Both words have specific meanings on their own. Put together they make no sense. If we conclude that "capitalism" has a specific meaning (and not a vague woolly-anything you're having yourself cloud of meanings) and that-obviously-it pre-dated the use of the term "state capitalism", then it appears obvious that "state capitalism" was yet another piece of jargon invented for the inter-Marxist disputes which characterised the twentieth century, by theorists who wanted to take an anti-Soviet position by ascribing Captalist characteristics to the autocratic Command Economy.
    But I've just given you the definition of the term "state capitalism". Here it is again:

    "A political system in which the state has control of production and the use of capital."
    That's what it means. If you think that that definition is meaningless, perhaps you could explain why?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #280
    diaspora-mick diaspora-mick is offline
    diaspora-mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    4,835

    [QUOTE=Mercurial;12077234]That depends on its stage of development. Ultimately,a Marxist society would be a communist society, with the features associated with that term.

    So can we finally have a list of those features - at least the main ones - or how much longer are you going to keep beating about the bush ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurial View Post
    No.
    Well thank you for that clarification ... Cuba has clearly not advanced that far along the path towards Marx's vision of utopia ... maybe they are more inclined to take a little siesta in the afternoon ...
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 28 of 32 FirstFirst ... 182627282930 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment