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  1. #1
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

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    Why were the Irish veterans of Jadotville ostracised?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville


    Until the early 21st century, the Irish state did not give much recognition to the battle of Jadotville. The term "Jadotville Jack" was sometimes applied as a term of derision about the Irish Defence Forces.
    The government has belatedly recognised the soldiers for their bravery.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1202/92...al-jadotville/

    The Catholic Church practically ran the Republic at the time of the Siege of Jadotville and stresses the obligation to respect the sanctity of human life. Therefore, one would assume that the Church hierarchy would be glad that all the Irish soldiers who fought at Jadotville survived.

    So why were they ostracised?
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  2. #2
    ruserious ruserious is offline
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    Because they surrendered.

    Nowadays we understand the heroic efforts made by the soldiers and accept the woefully inefficient supply lines getting to them, but the Irish State was not in the right place mentally to cheer a surrender in the early 60s.

    Also Conor Cruise O'Brien. The perpetual dick of Irish politics.
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  3. #3
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jadotville




    The government has belatedly recognised the soldiers for their bravery.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1202/92...al-jadotville/

    The Catholic Church practically ran the Republic at the time of the Siege of Jadotville and stresses the obligation to respect the sanctity of human life. Therefore, one would assume that the Church hierarchy would be glad that all the Irish soldiers who fought at Jadotville survived.

    So why were they ostracised?
    So the Catholic Church is to blame for the poor treatment of the Jadotville soldiers? That’s a new notion.......go on so, based on what?
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  4. #4
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Because they surrendered.

    Nowadays we understand the heroic efforts made by the soldiers and accept the woefully inefficient supply lines getting to them, but the Irish State was not in the right place mentally to cheer a surrender in the early 60s.

    Also Conor Cruise O'Brien. The perpetual dick of Irish politics.
    But the Church places a huge emphasis on the sanctity of human life and it practically ran the country at the time. Surely, that meant that the Church thought it was better that the soldiers had surrendered and then came home alive rather than being brought back in bodybags.

    Therefore, you haven't answered my question.
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  5. #5
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    But the Church places a huge emphasis on the sanctity of human life and it practically ran the country at the time. Surely, that meant that the Church thought it was better that the soldiers had surrendered and then came home alive rather than being brought back in bodybags.

    Therefore, you haven't answered my question.
    It’s a really dumb question. What did the Church have to do with how the veterans were treated?
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  6. #6
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    So the Catholic Church is to blame for the poor treatment of the Jadotville soldiers? That’s a new notion.......go on so, based on what?
    I was not blaming the Church.

    At the time, most Catholic lay people in the Republic deferred to the Church. The Church places great emphasis on the sanctity of human life. So why were the government and the Irish Defence Forces' equivalent of high command not happy that the soldiers had been brought home alive? After all, most politicians and Defence Forces commanders deferred to the Church, didn't they?!
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  7. #7
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    It’s a really dumb question. What did the Church have to do with how the veterans were treated?
    Because government ministers and most of the public deferred to the Church. So if the Church told ordinary Catholics to be glad that the veterans had been brought home alive, most of them would have adhered to that, wouldn't they?!
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  8. #8
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    I was not blaming the Church.

    At the time, most Catholic lay people in the Republic deferred to the Church. The Church places great emphasis on the sanctity of human life. So why were the government and the Irish Defence Forces' equivalent of high command not happy that the soldiers had been brought home alive? After all, most politicians and Defence Forces commanders deferred to the Church, didn't they?!
    Yes you are, seemingly based on a general presumption that everything bad in Ireland was the fault of the Church. What has the Church to do with Jadotville? Still time for dumbest thread of the year btw.
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  9. #9
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruserious View Post
    Also Conor Cruise O'Brien. The perpetual dick of Irish politics.
    I'm aware of his role in the Congo crisis but I don't see what he had to do with how the Jadotville veterans were treated once they had come home.
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  10. #10
    ruserious ruserious is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    But the Church places a huge emphasis on the sanctity of human life and it practically ran the country at the time. Surely, that meant that the Church thought it was better that the soldiers had surrendered and then came home alive rather than being brought back in bodybags.

    Therefore, you haven't answered my question.
    I'm guessing this is some kind of psudo-thought experiment because the Church, while practicing lip service, certainly didn't respect the sanctity of life. Tuam etc.

    Also you were getting into the Lemass and Whitaker years which saw the State unshackle some of the more restrictive Religious chains around her neck.
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