Register to Comment
Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 94
Like Tree101Likes
  1. #11
    Vega1447 Vega1447 is offline
    Vega1447's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    6,091

    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    I was not blaming the Church.

    At the time, most Catholic lay people in the Republic deferred to the Church. The Church places great emphasis on the sanctity of human life. So why were the government and the Irish Defence Forces' equivalent of high command not happy that the soldiers had been brought home alive? After all, most politicians and Defence Forces commanders deferred to the Church, didn't they?!
    I expect that the Belgians (and the Brits & French) put the arm on our Govt to downplay the heroism of our troops.
    Because it might embarrass "business interests".

    Disgraceful but there you go.

    As for CCOB; a man who would have been quite happy for Irishmen to die for him, not so much the reverse.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #12
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,694

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar View Post
    Yes you are, seemingly based on a general presumption that everything bad in Ireland was the fault of the Church. What has the Church to do with Jadotville? Still time for dumbest thread of the year btw.
    I was working on the assumption that most Irish Catholics did what the Church hierarchy told them to do. The Church emphasises the sanctity of human life. Therefore, I don't see why they would have ostracised the Jadotville veterans.

    You know fine well I'm not blaming the Church. Stop being disingenuous.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #13
    Nebuchadnezzar Nebuchadnezzar is offline
    Nebuchadnezzar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    9,322

    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    I was working on the assumption that most Irish Catholics did what the Church hierarchy told them to do. The Church emphasises the sanctity of human life. Therefore, I don't see why they would have ostracised the Jadotville veterans.

    You know fine well I'm not blaming the Church. Stop being disingenuous.
    An OP that has nothing in it other than a statement that the CC controlled everything in Ireland. Nothing about the military culture in the army or the the fact that this was Ireland first major overseas UN mission and that any surrender was seen by those at the time as a disgrace. It had nothing to do with the Church.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #14
    former wesleyan former wesleyan is online now
    former wesleyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    25,651

    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    I was working on the assumption that most Irish Catholics did what the Church hierarchy told them to do. The Church emphasises the sanctity of human life. Therefore, I don't see why they would have ostracised the Jadotville veterans.

    You know fine well I'm not blaming the Church. Stop being disingenuous.
    You're being disingenuous yourself. The " surrender " didn't sit well with political parties who glorified violence.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #15
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,694

    Quote Originally Posted by Vega1447 View Post
    I expect that the Belgians (and the Brits & French) put the arm on our Govt to downplay the heroism of our troops.
    Because it might embarrass "business interests".

    Disgraceful but there you go.

    As for CCOB; a man who would have been quite happy for Irishmen to die for him, not so much the reverse.
    I'm aware of the part that Belgium played in the crisis but I haven't seen any indication that the British and French governments supported the Katangan government. After all, Britain and France are two of the permanent members of the Security Council and so the UN mssion wouldn't have taken place at all if either of them had vetoed it. So why would they support entities that were attacking UN forces?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #16
    davidcameron davidcameron is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    8,694

    Quote Originally Posted by former wesleyan View Post
    You're being disingenuous yourself. The " surrender " didn't sit well with political parties who glorified violence.
    They glorified the Easter Rising and the War of Independence but there's no evidence that they glorified violence that was taking place in the early 1960s.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #17
    former wesleyan former wesleyan is online now
    former wesleyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    25,651

    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    They glorified the Easter Rising and the War of Independence but there's no evidence that they glorified violence that was taking place in the early 1960s.
    Tradition of violence.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #18
    Sweet Darling Sweet Darling is offline

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,866

    Firstly. It was a diplomatic incident between Ireland and lowlife Belgium. and made Irelands rep' on the UN look bad.
    Secondly, The Army nor the Department of Defence did not know how to handle a defeat, so hamfistedly blotted it out of Army History.
    Now compare it to the British Army and there embarrassedly numerous defeats over the years. Dunkirk, Norway, Singapore, Rorke's Drift, Crete, Basra, Helmand etc, etc. They get Pinewood and Ardmore studios on to it to fake up a heroic angle. Start dishing out VCs like confetti to deflect the publics attention and stich exotic names on regimental colours to try and maintain moral.
    Last edited by Sweet Darling; 3rd December 2017 at 12:09 AM.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #19
    parentheses parentheses is offline
    parentheses's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12,161

    Quote Originally Posted by davidcameron View Post
    I'm aware of the part that Belgium played in the crisis but I haven't seen any indication that the British and French governments supported the Katangan government. After all, Britain and France are two of the permanent members of the Security Council and so the UN mssion wouldn't have taken place at all if either of them had vetoed it. So why would they support entities that were attacking UN forces?
    The Belgians, French, and British, wanting influence in the wealthy region, supported the Katanga movement in practice, if not in name.
    Congo in Crisis: The Rise and Fall of Katangan Secession - Association for Diplomatic Studies and TrainingAssociation for Diplomatic Studies and Training
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #20
    Nedz Newt Nedz Newt is offline
    Nedz Newt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,673

    There's a huge amount of space between being "ostracised" and being "lauded as heroes". Were they actually ostracised, and if so, from what were they excluded?
    If they experienced adverse social or career consequences, that'd be an indicator.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 2 of 10 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment