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  1. #11
    razorblade razorblade is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainwreck View Post
    The legacy?


    100 million dead.
    Indeed and yet the same crowd who admire that legacy have attacked peaceful marchers protesting against the equally totalitarian ideology of Islam, you can really get a glimpse of the kind of scum the likes of Antifa and those on the extreme left are.
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  2. #12
    Catalpast Catalpast is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristodemus View Post
    Why was it called the October Revolution?
    Russia still used the Julian Calendar at the time while most (if not all) of Europe and the Americas use the Gregorian Calendar.

    It is named after Pope Gregory XIII, who introduced it in October 1582 AD
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  3. #13
    Hillmanhunter1 Hillmanhunter1 is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulp View Post
    Justified? yes.
    Was it the right approach?
    Are they not still living with the consequences? (no democracy)
    It is ill-informed (and possibly racist) to posit that democracy is the highest state of governance and the destination towards which non-democratic states aspire.
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  4. #14
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
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    There were two revolutions. The Tsar was overthrown in the February Revolution while the Provisional government was overthrown in the October revolution.

    Reasons for February revolution included anti war sentiment, food shortages, land ownership, opposition to regime from Socialists, and Social Revolutionaries. Reasons for the October revolution included the government being dominated by big landowners who wanted to stay in the war, plus being forced to depend on the Soviets (workers councils) for military support due to a revolt of conservative officers like Lavr Kornilov. This opened the door for the Bolsheviks to take power.

    Lenin allowed the elections for the constituent assembly to go ahead but closed the assembly when the Bolsheviks only won 25% of the vote. The White Movement started the next day, but it's armies were divided by huge distances and between absolute monarchists, constitutional monarchists, Mensheviks (breakaway group from Social Democrats), Social Revolutionaries, separatists in Central Asia and Georgia (which had a Menshevik government), and western and Japanese armies that intervened to support the White movement. There was also a strong Anarchist movement in Ukraine led by Nestor Makhno which switched to the Red side.

    A big what-if is whether Tsar Alexander II, Nicholas's IIs grandson, could have saved the system or not. Alexander had abolished serfdom in 1866, but the terms involved the former serfs having to pay back their former owners at extortionate costs. He had also set up local councils called zemstvos. He allowed the Finnish Diet (parliament) to meet for the first time - something that had been promised 58 years earlier). He also planned elections but this experiment ended when he was assassinated and his reactionary son Alexander III came to power. He restricted the powers of the zemstvos but didn't scrap them as their support was needed during severe floods that the govt couldn't cope with.

    Tsar Nicholas II while a child was tutored by Pobedenstsev, who said "parliamentarianism is the great lie of our time". As Tsar he restricted the power of the Finnish diet and extended Russification there. Unlike Alexander III he was pro war. A defeat against Japan in 1905 led to mass demonstrations which forced him to summon a parliament called the Duma. But when it wa dominated by Far Right and Far Leftists, he changed the electoral law to keep out the Far Left and then even the Kadets party which was liberal monarchist. One of his Prime Ministers Piotr Stolypin (of whom Putin is reportedly a fan) pushed for more press freedom and industrialisation. But his plans for land reform ended when he was assassinated in a theatre. The imperial family refused to attend his funeral because he was anti-Rasputin. Officially he was assassinated by a leftist, but the Tsar shut down the investigation, leading to speculation someone in the regime was responsible.

    The Tsars personality was also a problem. In the Constitution of 1905 he promised to abide by the constitution but in practice when it didn't suit he did the opposite. He also publicly condemned anti Semitic pogroms while privately supporting them. The Okrana (secret police) wrote the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
    Last edited by Dame_Enda; 7th November 2017 at 02:12 PM.
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  5. #15
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillmanhunter1 View Post
    It is ill-informed (and possibly racist) to posit that democracy is the highest state of governance and the destination towards which non-democratic states aspire.
    I sincerely hope this is a joke.
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  6. #16
    Hillmanhunter1 Hillmanhunter1 is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clanrickard View Post
    I sincerely hope this is a joke.
    Democracy is a form of government that is favoured by Christian (nominally, at least) European cultures. It is a product of a history that includes the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, the reformation, the Gutenberg Press, the renaissance, Rome and Athens.

    But if a culture does not share this history then democracy will not be part of its story. That is why democracy has not been exported to the other 85% of the world's inhabitants.
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  7. #17
    Trainwreck Trainwreck is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillmanhunter1 View Post
    Democracy is a form of government that is favoured by Christian (nominally, at least) European cultures. It is a product of a history that includes the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, the reformation, the Gutenberg Press, the renaissance, Rome and Athens.

    But if a culture does not share this history then democracy will not be part of its story. That is why democracy has not been exported to the other 85% of the world's inhabitants.
    It literally means power to the people.


    Socialists are f˙cking stupid.
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  8. #18
    Clanrickard Clanrickard is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillmanhunter1 View Post
    Democracy is a form of government that is favoured by Christian (nominally, at least) European cultures. It is a product of a history that includes the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, the reformation, the Gutenberg Press, the renaissance, Rome and Athens.

    But if a culture does not share this history then democracy will not be part of its story. That is why democracy has not been exported to the other 85% of the world's inhabitants.
    All countries should be democratic. It makes them wealthier, healthier,freer and safer.
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  9. #19
    Fr. Hank Tree Fr. Hank Tree is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hillmanhunter1 View Post
    It is a product of a history that includes the industrial revolution, the enlightenment, the reformation, the Gutenberg Press, the renaissance, Rome and Athens.
    Really petty how you exclude the church.
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  10. #20
    Hillmanhunter1 Hillmanhunter1 is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fr. Hank Tree View Post
    Really petty how you exclude the church.
    I would have thought that referencing Rome, the renaissance, the reformation and the fact that democracy is associated with Christian cultures was 4 references to the church - or did you not see those?
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