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  1. #21
    Sailor Sailor is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by talkingshop View Post
    And it bothered no one until the Charlottesville thing, now some Councillor sees an opportunity to jump on the bandwagon.
    Exactly - but look at the comments section. It demonstrates that people will only tolerate so much before they call a halt to the nonsense!
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  2. #22
    bokuden bokuden is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    The ISIS Caliphate is now 3 years old since it was declared in June 2014.

    The Confederate States of America lasted approximately 4 years from its Declaration in March 11, 1861 to the surrender of its last army in the field, in Texas, June 1865.

    Given that the Caliphate will probably eke out another year of desperate military resistance, much like the last years of both Nazi Germany and the Confederacy, both the CSA and the Caliphate are directly comparable in temporal existence.

    The are comparable in other ways also. The world has been horrified by the violence of ISIS, but it is the treatment of Yazidis that truly shocked the world. Yazidis, a community who still adhere to some of the world' most ancient religious rites, have been brutalised, slaughtered and enslaved by the Caliphate soldiers. Yazidi women have been raped, confined and continually abused sexually by their tormentors.

    But White Supremacists view the Confederacy with admiration, because the experience of the Yazidis was the fate of black people who were unfortunate enough to have been born into the CSA.

    ISIS is led by Islamists who believe themselves the purest Muslims of all. White Supremacists adore the Confederacy because it was led in their eyes by people of the purest white blood. There were other slave communities in the world like Brazil, but the Confederacy was racially unique - the only slave society run by leaders of pure, white, Anglo-Saxon, Nordic stock, where the slaves lived directly under their masters, and not on some distant Caribbean Island.

    Blacks lived a grim life in the CSA. True, it was as grim as it was under the USA, but the Confederacy was a society closed on the subject of slavery. Its Vice-President Alexander Stephens announced early in its existence that it was founded on the proposition that all men were NOT created equal, and that some were superior to others. That has made the Confederacy the idol of Fascists and White Supremacists ever since.

    The brutal lives of blacks in the South has been depicted in films like 10 Years A Slave, finally eviscerating the portrait of happy-clappy slaves from Gone With the Wind.

    • The CSA did not allow any civil or human rights to its ~4 million blacks (out of a ~9 million population. The CSA was a terrorist state to its black residents.
    • Slave women did not own their own bodies but could be raped on the whim of their white masters or overseers.
    • They had to bear children that might be sold.
    • By the "single drop of blood" policy, any child of a black woman was black and a slave. White masters often sold their own children.
    • Blacks were not allowed have families, as husbands, wives and children were often sold off separately, and never saw each other again.
    • Blacks were not allowed an education, and some states did not allow free blacks within their borders.
    • Young women were sold as "good breeders" and such advertisements appeared in the newspapers.
    • Men, especially in the Deep South, lived shortened lives of brutal toil. Aged blacks, to weak to work, were often abandoned in the deep woods, and left to die alone.


    All this makes the Confederacy admirable in the eyes of White Supremacists, the Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews and Gays does also. Like the ISIS Caliphate, it was set up to perpetuate a cruel dominance of the weak by the strong, whether the "strong" be defined by race or by the Islamic religion.

    In fact, the ISIS Caliphate is not far removed from the sort of authoritarian state White Supremacists, or any racial "superior" group, might set up. Both terrorist states should be rejected with equal horror and contempt, not just by "liberals" but by anyone with a sense of justice and fairness.
    A very interesting comparison.
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  3. #23
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    You mean this kind of Confederate statue:

    Call for Tuam Town Hall to remove memorial to Irish Confederate major
    Call for Tuam Town Hall to remove memorial to Irish Confederate major

    The demands of those trying to change the realities of their history just as they have altered the reality of the present, have down too far. It is time for the silent majority to find their voice.
    We rarely agree, but I'm with you on this.

    History - warts and all

    Should Griffith be airbrushed out of Irish History for his racism?

    John Mitchel?



    Nationalists erected this statue to him in Newry in 1965 ... should that go?
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  4. #24
    Herr Rommel Herr Rommel is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Actually, it reminds me of this



    A New York crowd topple George III
    People like you are the reason the streets of Europe are running red with blood thanks to Islamic extremists.
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  5. #25
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    If the American social left think it is right to eradicate all memorials to the Confederate military, when will they demand the removal of all statues to soldiers and politicians who were responsible for the ethnic cleansing and almost total wipeout of the native population? Or is it the case that the attack on the Confederate statues is really a deliberate act of provocation against conservativism, and they see no value in pursuing the Native American historical oppressors?
    Nice elision there, conflating "white supremacists" into "conservatives".

    So all conservatives are white supremacists, then?

    White supremacists are the one doing the vocal protesters - you know, the ones you support.
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  6. #26
    Sailor Sailor is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruimh View Post
    We rarely agree, but I'm with you on this.

    History - warts and all

    Should Griffith be airbrushed out of Irish History for his racism?

    John Mitchel?



    Nationalists erected this statue to him in Newry in 1965 ... should that go?
    The logic of the OP would say yes, common sense would disagree. Now let normal hostilities resume
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  7. #27
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herr Rommel View Post
    People like you are the reason the streets of Europe are running red with blood thanks to Islamic extremists.
    Yeah, its true, blame it all on people who point out what is true.

    When American streets run red with blood from crazy gun laws that allow the insane to pack pistols and automatic rifles, where are you?
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  8. #28
    talkingshop talkingshop is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Why should anyone have to look every day at a monument to someone who perpetuated an evil institution?

    Or do you not think the Confederacy was evil?

    I think most of the statue-defenders are intellectual cowards. It is not the men of the statues they want to defend, but the Confederacy and white supremacy.
    The Confederacy wasn't evil, no. Slavery was evil but most people didn't think so at the time. The Civil War was a lot about state rights v federal rights, economic issues, and most white people in the North didn't give a damn about the slaves/blacks either.
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  9. #29
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    John Mitchel who for all his faults was a lover of reason and justice that the Christian folk of Dixie treated their slaves in a far superior manner to how the Anglo-Irish Ascendency treated their Gaelic Catholic peasants. So following the rationale of Owed should we destroy Trinity College?
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  10. #30
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
    The logic of the OP would say yes, common sense would disagree. Now let normal hostilities resume
    What we wrote on this question is worth reading. Slavery was on the way out anyway.
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