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  1. #11
    Catalpast Catalpast is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Urko View Post
    But they may have been blueshirts!

    Quite possibly, economic stagnation wouldn't have lasted as long.
    It's very very difficult to view De Valera as having been a positive influence on th ecountry, BTW we would still have stayed out of WW2!
    If he was such a negative influence

    - then please explain how he won so many elections?

    He obviously was an extremely respected politician with very many people
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  2. #12
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    If he was such a negative influence

    - then please explain how he won so many elections?

    He obviously was an extremely respected politician with very many people
    He said rugby is a game that suits the Irish mentality, well actually FF suits it even more!
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  3. #13
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catalpast View Post
    If he was such a negative influence

    - then please explain how he won so many elections?

    He obviously was an extremely respected politician with very many people
    The opposition i.e. Blueshirts morphed into a party supported by Big farmers and Sleeveen minimum wage employers (indeed less when they get away with it), which is still the case today! These are the type of people that ordinary Irish people hate the living fooking sight of!
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  4. #14
    Hogsback Hogsback is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Urko View Post
    Firstly, I don't believe it would have caused such havoc in the United States that because one of their own citizens was executed by The British, it would have stopped them entering WW1!
    My understanding is that Maxwell asked one of his advisors what should be done with this De Valera chap. The response was - he's a nobody who will never come back to haunt us!
    The word that he had a breakdown while in command at Bolands' Mill and had to be locked in a room by his own men, to keep order, must have got around!
    How does the world change if De valera's remains were limestoned with the 1916 heroes who had been executed as well?
    - No civil war
    - Collins survives
    - Under Taoiseach Collins FG establishes itself as the main party of the state, and it takes a genuinely Republican position
    - Collins covertly supports the Nationalists in the North
    - During WWII President Collins negotiates militarily meaningless but highly symbolic support for Britain with Churchill in exchange for a united Ireland after the war
    - 32 County Republic established 1946
    - Strong trade ties with UK and a constitution limiting the executive powers of the RCC lead to a thriving and forward looking nation by the late fifties, early sixties
    - Minimal emigration and a strong education system drive year over year economic and industrial growth the envy of most European countries through the 70s and 80s
    - Tech boom at the turn of the century brings a new boost to the country. Thankfully close regulation of the banking sector and a highly competent government sees the country through a global crisis or two, seeing the country emerge into a model for world management
    - Annual budget surpluses and zero national debt see the country decide to bid farewell to the Euro and return to the Punt 2010 to insulate the country from global uncertainty
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  5. #15
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hogsback View Post
    - No civil war
    - Collins survives
    - Under Taoiseach Collins FG establishes itself as the main party of the state, and it takes a genuinely Republican position
    - Collins covertly supports the Nationalists in the North
    - During WWII President Collins negotiates militarily meaningless but highly symbolic support for Britain with Churchill in exchange for a united Ireland after the war
    - 32 County Republic established 1946
    - Strong trade ties with UK and a constitution limiting the executive powers of the RCC lead to a thriving and forward looking nation by the late fifties, early sixties
    - Minimal emigration and a strong education system drive year over year economic and industrial growth the envy of most European countries through the 70s and 80s
    - Tech boom at the turn of the century brings a new boost to the country. Thankfully close regulation of the banking sector and a highly competent government sees the country through a global crisis or two, seeing the country emerge into a model for world management
    - Annual budget surpluses and zero national debt see the country decide to bid farewell to the Euro and return to the Punt 2010 to insulate the country from global uncertainty
    Collins may have been killed any way, indeed had he survived, I think he would not by choice have served term after term!
    Whatever the Brits offered in exchange for WW2 support, they would either have reneged on it or The Nazis would have destroyed us!
    No 1937 constitution though!
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  6. #16
    The Eagle of the Ninth The Eagle of the Ninth is offline

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    Well first of all, the US legation also made representations on behalf of Tom Clarke, who had been a confirmed American citizen since 1905, and he was still executed. They weren't even sure that Dev was a US citizen. He basically escaped because he was held in a different prison, and by the time they got round to him, the heat had gone out of the immediate response. The intelligence file on Dev was very limited. It merely indicated his membership of the IRB. He had no high profile or family background in Fenianism, so they gave him the pass.

    As for what might have happened had he been shot, I don't know. You could have got something even madder. Dev was a pragmatist to his finger-tips. It's easy to look at things through the prism of individual personalities, but events, dear boy, events ...
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  7. #17
    dammit_im_mad dammit_im_mad is offline

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    one of my favourite films...
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  8. #18
    Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS) Zapped(CAPITALISMROTS) is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by dammit_im_mad View Post
    AYE now your talking dammit... proper men! COBURN AND Steiger arrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...
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  9. #19
    The Eagle of the Ninth The Eagle of the Ninth is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by dammit_im_mad View Post


    one of my favourite films...
    Indeed, one of mine two.

    Duck you suckers ...

    Dev was expert at ducking and diving. I guess that makes everyone else the sucker...
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  10. #20
    President Bartlet President Bartlet is offline
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    If Maxwell had of executed Dev there would have been no Fianna Fail or Fine Gael - it would have been Sinn Fein - both parties were born out of the split of the Civil War which might not have happened. It could well have been Sinn Fein v the Labour Party
    Last edited by President Bartlet; 3rd March 2016 at 10:08 PM.
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