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  1. #21
    Justinian Justinian is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    Interestingly the chief agent of the Confederacy for arms and supply procurement in Britain was James Dunwoody Bulloch.

    He was the uncle of Teddy Roosevelt. Roosevelt was noted in later life for his Pro-British attitude.

    James Dunwoody Bulloch's brother, Irvine Stephens Bulloch, was an officer on CSS Alabama, which sank a huge number of United States ships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dunwoody_Bulloch
    As an interesting aside: Theodore's mother was a supporter of the Confederacy and once, when Theodore felt that she had wronged him he loudly prayed for the success of Union arms to needle her. He was four years old at the time.
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  2. #22
    niall78 niall78 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by firefly123 View Post
    It was Britains tacide support for the confederacy that lead to the founding of the Irish brigades in the Union army. Initially the United States government were reluctant to allow irish units and tried to integrate them. However they allowed the formation of these units (many of them made up of IRB members) as a warning to the British. These units went on to serve as the elite in the union army seeing action in many major battles and being virtually decimated on a number of occasions. The 69th regiment still exists as a national guard unit in New York.
    The Irish - both American born and immigrant - were one of the most under-represented groups in the Union army going on the population at the time.

    The Irish had a deep hatred for the Negro race and their electoral areas always elected anti-Union politicians.

    James M. McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom details this extensively.
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  3. #23
    niall78 niall78 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    After the war, the British had to pay a large amount of compensation to the USA for sinkings caused by Confederate raiding ships built in England.


    .
    Some of the Confederacy's greatest commerce raiders were built in England. They caused havoc amongst Union shipping. CSS Alabama being the most famous example.

    It was only the great victories at Gettysburg and Vicksburg that put the final nail in the coffin of the Confederacy gaining diplomatic recognition for their new state from England.
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  4. #24
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    After the war, the British had to pay a large amount of compensation to the USA for sinkings caused by Confederate raiding ships built in England.


    .
    Correct.

    What were known as the Alabama claims were only settled in 1872. Alabama Claims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The two countries came close to war in 1862 when the US ship San Jacinto stopped a British ship SS Trent on the high seas and arrested two Confederate emissaries, Mason and Slidell.

    However, the Lincoln government realised that its captain had gone a bit two far, and let the two men go free.

    In London, the hopelessness of defending Canada was realised, and a decision made to try to make it as self-governing as possible.
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  5. #25
    niall78 niall78 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Correct.

    What were known as the Alabama claims were only settled in 1872. Alabama Claims - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The two countries came close to war in 1862 when the US ship San Jacinto stopped a British ship SS Trent on the high seas and arrested two Confederate emissaries, Mason and Slidell.

    However, the Lincoln government realised that its captain had gone a bit two far, and let the two men go free.

    In London, the hopelessness of defending Canada was realised, and a decision made to try to make it as self-governing as possible.
    The whole diplomatic side of the American Civil War is very interesting. France's play for Mexico, the Trent Affair, the gun runners, the commerce raiders, the blockade runners, etc.
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  6. #26
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by niall78 View Post
    The whole diplomatic side of the American Civil War is very interesting. France's play for Mexico, the Trent Affair, the gun runners, the commerce raiders, the blockade runners, etc.
    It is true.

    Most interesting is that the European potentate who made the most supportive gesture towards the Confederacy was - the POPE!

    Pius IX was a reactionary who regarded the USA much as some of his successors regarded the USSR.

    The Catholic Knight: Pope Pius IX and the Confederacy
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  7. #27
    parentheses parentheses is offline

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    At the beginning of the 1860s the British empire was at the very height of its power.

    Britain was a veritable superpower

    A few years earlier they had defeated Russia, and then successfully put down the rebellion in India. And they had also defeated China.

    So, from a geopolitical point of view, some in the British government may have been attracted by the prospect of splitting the USA into two smaller and weaker states
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  8. #28
    APettigrew92 APettigrew92 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by niall78 View Post
    The Irish - both American born and immigrant - were one of the most under-represented groups in the Union army going on the population at the time.

    The Irish had a deep hatred for the Negro race and their electoral areas always elected anti-Union politicians.

    James M. McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom details this extensively.
    That's because the Brit enjoyed exporting their disdainful views of Irish Catholics abroad. Fresh off the 1850's Know-Nothing movement, it's not surprising that they felt somewhat under threat.

    Know Nothing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And this deep hatred you talk about is perhaps a bit hyperbolic. The Irish were often the poorer workers in Northern cities and the discontinuation of slavery meant an exodus of cheap, ex-slave labour to Northern Cities. This lead to a "they took our jobs" sort of mentality.

    African-Americans and Irish descendants would both usually vote Democrat, however.
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  9. #29
    at768 at768 is offline
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    I vote republican not democrat
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  10. #30
    firefly123 firefly123 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by niall78 View Post
    The Irish - both American born and immigrant - were one of the most under-represented groups in the Union army going on the population at the time.

    The Irish had a deep hatred for the Negro race and their electoral areas always elected anti-Union politicians.

    James M. McPherson's Battle Cry of Freedom details this extensively.
    There were aprox 1.6 million Irish in America at the time. 150,000 served in the union army whilst 20,000 served in the confederacy. That's 10%. Not bad considering.
    Irish in the American Civil War | About
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