[Req] Thatcher’s motives for the Anglo Irish Agreement

[JohnnySideburns]

Hi All,

I’m doing some research in relation to Margaret Thatcher and was wondering if I could pick the brains of some historians out there.

As far as I know, the starting point of the Anglo Irish agreement in 1985 was when Garret Fitzgerald rang up Thatcher and said something along the lines of “Sinn Fein’s support is growing in the North. Do you want to meet up and do something about it?”

Can anyone tell me what were Thatcher’s motives for going ahead with the talks? Had it anything to do with the fact she had almost been killed the previous year by the Brighton bomb? If there was no Brighton bomb, is it possible she wouldn’t have gone ahead with it?

Any recommended reading on the subject would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks In Advance for all responses.

[Nem]

Garreth's autobiography would be a good start. For Thatcher the main issue was security. To firm up the border and get some kind of agreeement on the army being able to pursue terrorists into the Republic or get some kind of 'cordon'. This was never going to happen, but FitzGerald did agree to crack down on this.

I'm not sure if the Brighton bomb had anything to do with it. Thatcher was basically a English nationalist. She had no real grasp of the problem in Northern Ireland and with the hungerstrikers became entrenched (lady is not for turning - all that nonsense). The killing of Airey Neave had seen to that back in 1979.

If you read Thather's autobiography you'll see that she regrets actually doing the AIA as it never achieved what she had hoped it would do. Ironically, it was a tentative step towards waht would become the GFA, as for the first time civil servants on both sides started to talk more directly and engaging with ideas such as the principle of consent, etc.

[Skin]

Hi All,

I’m doing some research in relation to Margaret Thatcher and was wondering if I could pick the brains of some historians out there.

As far as I know, the starting point of the Anglo Irish agreement in 1985 was when Garret Fitzgerald rang up Thatcher and said something along the lines of “Sinn Fein’s support is growing in the North. Do you want to meet up and do something about it?”

Can anyone tell me what were Thatcher’s motives for going ahead with the talks? Had it anything to do with the fact she had almost been killed the previous year by the Brighton bomb? If there was no Brighton bomb, is it possible she wouldn’t have gone ahead with it?

Any recommended reading on the subject would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks In Advance for all responses.

You make an interesting point about the Brighton bombing. Before that she would not entertain any notion of the Dublin government having a say in the North. After the bombing, she obviously (understandly) saw things differently.

Similarily, before Gerry Adams was shot, the objective of SF and the IRA was a complete british withdrawal without compromise. After he was shot, the word "peace" began to appear in SF literature for the first time.

[The Hallion]

The Anglo-Irish agreement provided a life-line to the SDLP at a time when Sinn Féin were still growing on the back of post Hunger Strike sentiment. It also served as a shot across the bows for hardline Loyalists and this was proven by their inability to thwart it in the same way as Sunningdale. The Hunger Strike more than anything was the impetus behind it imo.

[Nem]

You make an interesting point about the Brighton bombing. Before that she would not entertain any notion of the Dublin government having a say in the North. After the bombing, she obviously (understandly) saw things differently.

I think you're right in saying that any Dublin involvement wasn't something she'd consider. Actually, I don't think it ever really entered her mind before that. IMHO the bombing only solidified her belief that the only way the IRA could be defeated was by firming up the army's role and standing firm. Its the only thing she knew to do. I think she liked Garreth but in the end didn't expect much of him, hence the regret and the mess over the announcement of the AIA itself.

Similarily, before Gerry Adams was shot, the objective of SF and the IRA was a complete british withdrawal without compromise. After he was shot, the word "peace" began to appear in SF literature for the first time.

That's an interesting point. Although Adams has insisted that the British Army knew this was about to happen, so logic would dictate that he would be even more convinced about a full withdrawal. IMHO the 'peace' strand must have started when he was elected president of the SF.

[PatMcL]

'Similarily, before Gerry Adams was shot, the objective of SF and the IRA was a complete british withdrawal without compromise. After he was shot, the word "peace" began to appear in SF literature for the first time.'

When? The following day; week; month; year or decade? Or did the idea come to fruition when the stalemate on all sides was recognised?

[Aindriu]

'Similarily, before Gerry Adams was shot, the objective of SF and the IRA was a complete british withdrawal without compromise. After he was shot, the word "peace" began to appear in SF literature for the first time.'

When? The following day; week; month; year or decade? Or did the idea come to fruition when the stalemate on all sides was recognised?

IMHO the end of the cold was had more to do with the peace process than people realise. While the cold war existed the Brits had a constant fear of being seen to be weak and successive governments saw that as a reason to be seen as strong over NI.

As for the Brighton bomb. It is a shame that Thatcher, Tebbut et al weren't killed - it would have done the citizens of GB a great service. I bet there wouldn't have been many miners weeping over her demise.

[Skin]

'Similarily, before Gerry Adams was shot, the objective of SF and the IRA was a complete british withdrawal without compromise. After he was shot, the word "peace" began to appear in SF literature for the first time.'

When? The following day; week; month; year or decade? Or did the idea come to fruition when the stalemate on all sides was recognised?

I dont have the exact dates to hand but I could find out.

Brighton bombing - 1984
1985 British government changes policy and allows Dublin government a say in northern affairs (anglo-irish agreement)

1984 - Gerry Adams shot
1985 - Sinn Fheis publishes document (i'll find out the exact name) that proposes a peaceful settlement to the conflict for the first time.

Both Thatcher and Adams were in charge, both carried most influence.

Its just an observation, nothing else.

[The Hallion]

IMHO the end of the cold was had more to do with the peace process than people realise. While the cold war existed the Brits had a constant fear of being seen to be weak and successive governments saw that as a reason to be seen as strong over NI.

Absolutely, the end of the cold war and the transformation of the neo-con strategy post gulf war 1. It would have been much harder to conceive a 'global war on terror' when there was still an ongoing, high-profile guerilla campaign in Ireland. America's involvement in the peace process was purely selfish in the context of their long-term foreign policy objectives.

As for the Brighton bomb. It is a shame that Thatcher, Tebbut et al weren't killed - it would have done the citizens of GB a great service. I bet there wouldn't have been many miners weeping over her demise.

Jaysus, good man I would never have had you down as a closet Tiocfaidh!

[Aindriu]

IMHO the end of the cold was had more to do with the peace process than people realise. While the cold war existed the Brits had a constant fear of being seen to be weak and successive governments saw that as a reason to be seen as strong over NI.

Absolutely, the end of the cold war and the transformation of the neo-con strategy post gulf war 1. It would have been much harder to conceive a 'global war on terror' when there was still an ongoing, high-profile guerilla campaign in Ireland. America's involvement in the peace process was purely selfish in the context of their long-term foreign policy objectives.

As for the Brighton bomb. It is a shame that Thatcher, Tebbut et al weren't killed - it would have done the citizens of GB a great service. I bet there wouldn't have been many miners weeping over her demise.

Jaysus, good man I would never have had you down as a closet Tiocfaidh!

We learn something new every day a chara. Thatcher was (is) an evil cow who did enormous damage to the British people as well as the Irish. Her attitude over the hunger strikes was appalling - especially when they implemented nearly all the demands within weeks of it ending. I bet she wouldn't have had the courage to starve herself to death over her beliefs.