Alternate Histories

[Cloigeann]

I am quite interested in alternate history myself, exploring the "what if's" and "could be's"

Germany wins WW2
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Japan is an ally in WW2
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With this I pose a question: What if there was no 1916 rising or war in 1919-21?

[Auditor #9]

No 1916 rising? That presumes a lot. Dev, Collins etc - do they exist or not? I'm thinking of India. WWII would have happened and then a United Ireland would have been formed after a policy of allowing use of ports for British efforts here (maybe) but there would have been Unionist dissenting voices here anyway. The civil war would have happened in the late forties or concurrently with WWII or even just before it like the Spanish Civil War.

Alternate histories...do you watch Stargate? There was an 'alternate universes' episode on recently. It was confusing.

[Cloigeann]

No 1916 rising? That presumes a lot. Dev, Collins etc - do they exist or not? I'm thinking of India. WWII would have happened and then a United Ireland would have been formed after a policy of allowing use of ports for British efforts here (maybe) but there would have been Unionist dissenting voices here anyway. The civil war would have happened in the late forties or concurrently with WWII or even just before it like the Spanish Civil War.

Alternate histories...do you watch Stargate? There was an 'alternate universes' episode on recently. It was confusing.

Well lets say Collins stays in London and never gets involved in Irish politics and Dev stays in the US which could of easily happened because of Ireland's poor economy then it was not an attractive place to move to.

Would the civil war of happened since Ireland then would of had devolution since WW1 would be well over and would of atleast been partially satisfied?

Yes I do watch Stargate but not lately

[jpc]

No 1916.Ireland becomes a dominion by 1925.Full soverign status by 1947.Or vicious civil conflict post WWI. All of Ulster some of north Leinster ceded to Unionists.Joined the Allies in WW2 on a half promise from Churchill to unify the island. Still not sorted to this day.Economy never developed its full potential due to military spending and ongoing border conflict.

[rockofcashel]

No 1916 rising? That presumes a lot. Dev, Collins etc - do they exist or not? I'm thinking of India. WWII would have happened and then a United Ireland would have been formed after a policy of allowing use of ports for British efforts here (maybe) but there would have been Unionist dissenting voices here anyway. The civil war would have happened in the late forties or concurrently with WWII or even just before it like the Spanish Civil War.

Alternate histories...do you watch Stargate? There was an 'alternate universes' episode on recently. It was confusing.

Well lets say Collins stays in London and never gets involved in Irish politics and Dev stays in the US which could of easily happened because of Ireland's poor economy then it was not an attractive place to move to.

Would the civil war of happened since Ireland then would of had devolution since WW1 would be well over and would of atleast been partially satisfied?

Yes I do watch Stargate but not lately

In your particular hypothesis yes, the Rising would have still happened. Neither Dev nor Collins were important people in the planning or execution of the 1916 Rising.. only coming to prominence afterwards for differing reasons

[PaddyDevlin]

With this I pose a question: What if there was no 1916 rising or war in 1919-21?

A possable point of divergence could be Britain not entering WW1 (or WW1 not breaking out in 1914) the Home Rule act coming into force in 1914 and an uprising happening in Ulster - that coupled with a massive constitutional crisis for Britain

Conflict would have happened but the context in which it happened could have been massively different without WW1

[Mac1978]

Yeah the 'what if' questions can be interesting. But interesting as they are, I can't ever really bring myself to think about them for two long!

You see, I see every event in history as the inevitable conclusion to the events that occured before. In other words - because of the centuries of Irish history that went before, 1916 was inevitable. Human beings, being what they are (and history is an important part of the study of what they are) could only have reacted to the previous events, and the enviornment created, in the way that they did - and thus there had to be a 1916. Debateable and confusing I know, but its the only way I can try to sympathise/understand the historical peoples and personalities of which I read. I guess I'm just too unimaginative to embrace your question