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  1. #1
    Eric Cartman Eric Cartman is offline
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    John Wayne's Great-great-grandfather (Robert Morrison) was a United Irishman

    One of John Wayne's Great-great grandfather's was a United Irishman and perhaps so was another. You typical DUP oik
    would choke on his cornflakes if he realized just how many Presbyterians were republicans during 1798, many of whom emigrated to the States and held republican views there too. Robert Emmet's brother, Thomas Addis Emmet fled to New York and became State Attorney General and his son, also Robert Emmet became a founder of the Republican party. The Emmets are still prominent there with Richard Stockton Emmett jr. visiting Ireland in 2003 for the bicentenary of 1803.

    Here's a piece on John Wayne a.k.a. Marion Mitchell Morrison, Idaho/California:

    WashingtonPost.com: John Wayne: American

    What I find interesting is the piece on his Scotch-Irish (Ulster Scots) background. The term was already current in the early 19th c., though today most of the 7% of US citizens that enumerated themselves "American" ethnicity are Scotch-Irish, and other UK & Ireland descent i.e. Anglo-Celtic. (About half of all US Whites are Anglo-Celtic i.e. ~35% of total US population).

    In the 1950s John Wayne remarked to a Hollywood reporter that he was "just a Scotch-Irish little boy." In the ancient past, the Morrison clan had originated on the island of Lewis, in the Outer Hebrides, off the coast of Scotland.
    Unkept promises drove his great-great-grandfather Robert Morrison to America. Robert was born in County Antrim, Northern Ireland, in 1782, to John Morrison and Nancy de Scrogges. His father died when Robert was a baby, but he passed on to the infant the tenacity of his ancestors. Lord Rosebury, who owned a large tract of land in County Antrim, remarked in 1790 that the Scotch-Irish were "the toughest, the most dominant, the most irresistable race that exists in the universe at this moment." Robert Morrison embodied those qualities. Northern Ireland had been a bloody battleground for Catholics and Protestants since the early 1600s, but Morrison could not identify with either side. A Scotch-Irish Presbyterian who did not think highly of Catholics, he also despised the British government that made life so miserable for everyone. Even as a teenager he was politically active in the United Irishmen, an insurgent group opposed to British rule in Ulster. After being betrayed to the British by a "friend" in the United Irishmen and learning that a warrant had been issued for his arrest, Morrison knew he had only one option-to head across the Atlantic with hundreds of thousands of other Scotch-Irish and start over again in America.

    He arrived with his mother in New York in 1799.
    There is an interesting comparison between the economic circumstances that made the Southern and Mid-Western values-systems different:
    Their migration across the continent took two directions. Most initially traveled west toward the Appalachians and then south, straggling over the course of several generations down the eastern foothills across the frontiers of Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and the Florida Panhandle. By the early 1800s their descendants were scattering throughout Alabama and Mississippi, and by the 1820s into Louisiana and Texas. They conquered the local Indian tribes, cleared land, trafficked in African slaves, and became southerners. The other wave of Scotch-Irish settlers, however, avoided the South, crossing the Appalachians in Pennsylvania and gradually settling throughout Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, and Iowa. They became midwesterners.

    The two groups developed dramatically different cultures. Because of the presence of so many African-American slaves in the South, the Scotch-Irish there developed a strong sense of racial consciousness. When the Civil War devastated their way of life in the 1860s, the Scotch-Irish behaved like many other wealthy landowners, wallowing in a "lost cause" political separatism and developing both religious fundamentalism and a virulent racism. But the Scotch-Irish in the Midwest who won the Civil War gained a self-confidence that made for religious complacency and relative ethnic and racial harmony. It was that self-confidence, an inarrogant, healthy feeling, which became the centerpiece of midwestern values. Unfortunately for John Wayne, however, it would be possible to be raised in a midwestern culture of confidence and optimism but in a home full of insecurity and self-doubt.
    John Wayne's ancestor fought for the Union Army:
    Robert Morrison initially took the southern route of the Scotch-Irish migration, settling briefly in Chester County, South Carolina, before moving out to northern Kentucky. When he heard of a large colony of Morrisons across the Ohio River near Cherry Creek in Adams County, Ohio, he moved again and spent the rest of his life there. Morrison's fifth child, James, born in 1811, grew up in Cherry Fork but then pushed west, living out his life in Monmouth, Warren County, Illinois.

    One of James's sons-Marion Mitchell Morrison (John Wayne's grandfather)-was just sixteen years old when the family reached Monmouth. He fought in the Union Army during the Civil War, returned to Monmouth after mustering out in 1865, and married Weltha Chase Parsons in 1869. Her family had its roots in seventeenth-century New England. Like the Morrisons they were faithful Presbyterians. Marion and Weltha Morrison lived in Monmouth, Illinois, for the next sixteen years. Then they were ready for their own odyssey, and they moved to Indianola, Iowa.
    Marion Mitchell Morrison's son, Clyde Leonard Morrison established himself as a pharmacist. He married Mary "Molly" Alberta Brown -another individual with both (Irish) Republican Scotch-Irish and Irish background:

    During his last summer at the college, Clyde met Mary Alberta Brown, a short, red-haired, green-eyed woman who worked as a telephone operator in Des Moines and attended the same Methodist church as he. Her parents called her Mary, but she was Molly to her friends. Her father, Robert Emmett Brown, had been born in Armstrong County, Pennsylvania, in 1849 to Scotch-Irish parents who moved west to Kansas when he was still a child. After mustering out of the army in 1868, Robert Brown settled in Lincoln, Nebraska, and went to work as a printer. He married a young woman of Irish descent. Margaret was born in County Cork in 1848 and came to the United States after the Civil War in the postfamine Irish migration. Robert Brown was a Presbyterian and Maggie was a teetotaling Irish Catholic, but they raised their children as Protestants.
    There is an interesting description of Madison CO., Idaho's Republican and WASP political and ethnic composition, which engendered his political formation, interesting description of the variety of social clubs and societies such as the "Oddfellows" and the Modern Woodmen of America that sprung up, Masonic-style to provide social coherence, charity and companionship for a people constantly on the move westward.

    The Great Plains states were Republican and viewed the Democrats as treacherous slavers, K.K.K. and terrorists e.g. Jesse James & the James/Young Gang, "Bushwackers" (Confederate guerillas, the partisans known as "Quantrill's Raiders" that included Pres. Harry S. Truman's uncles. They committed terrible atrocities in Kansas and continued after the war to raid Northern States). How, in the media's perception, the roles have changed!!

    There is more concerning Owen Wister's "The Virginian", a novel that eulogized the West and Western values, which paved the way for early American film-making and the Western genre:

    Owen Wister, whose novel The Virginian(1902) would help create the modern myth of the West, worried that "this continent does not hold a nation any longer, but is merely a strip of land on which a crowd is struggling for money." Owen Wister went west in 1885, not because he had to-he was from a well-educated, well-to-do family-but because he hoped to discover there an answer to the national crisis, a moral alternative to the commercial decadence and cultural malaise afflicting the East. During an extended stay in Wyoming before entering Harvard Law School, he managed a large cattle ranch and observed firsthand the range wars and Lincoln County violence of the late 1880s and early 1890s. He did not necessarily equate progress with the arrival of settlers, law, and order on the frontier, because newcomers often brought with them effete eastern values. What was to be revered out west, and what Wister immortalized in The Virginian, was the need for armed, virile men willing to break rules and ignore social conventions, to take the law into their own hands and resort to violence when necessary to protect decent people-civilization-from the menacing, debilitating effects of greedy capitalists, mindless mobs, and oppressive government officials. Wister, along with people like Frank Norris, Hamlin Garland, Jack London, and Stewart White, produced a genre of "red-blooded" fiction in the early 1900s to counter what they perceived to be the emasculating effects of commercialism, bureaucracy, urban squalor, and class conflict. The frontier no longer existed as a real place, but it could be perpetuated as a way of life, a symbolic world, through literature and education. The time was at hand for a revival of manly virtues-virility, toughness, courage, leadership, and determination. The literary mythology Wister and others invented helped entertain, and educate, a nation-highbrow readers as well as popular audiences-and spawned a set of values and expectations
    The rest of the article is a description of Clyde and Molly Morrison's unhappy marriage as this unemployed pharmacist tried his hand at agriculture in arid, rattlesnake-ridden Lancaster, Los Angeles CO., with his Union veteran dad, Marion. Young Marion, "Duke" Morrison has to suffer many nights of heated arguments, pillow on ears as his mother cajoles and threatens Clyde to up sticks -or else. Finally, Clyde sees a job advertised for a registered pharmacist in Glendale -a pleasant country town outside the city of L.A., by the sea. It had many Protestant churches, masonic and other fraternal societies and the comforts of a Mid Western town. Clyde moves his senile father to a V.A. Hospital near Glendale and moves. Young Marion eventually grows up in the shadows of Hollywood and eventually takes the stage name, John Wayne.

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  2. #2
    harry_w harry_w is offline
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    Is 'Ulster Scots' just a modern spin on 'Scotch-Irish'?
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  3. #3
    greenbacks greenbacks is offline

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    Another famous Ulster Scots - Andrew Jackson. A great president, one of the best in fact; absolutely despised the British. You can bet your bottom dollar that his loyalties were with Irish republicans.
    Last edited by greenbacks; 20th November 2013 at 05:16 PM.
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    Balaclava Balaclava is offline

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    Wayne was 34 in 1941 and married with kids. He could have pushed to join the military and fight in World War 2 but he didn't. The likes of Jimmy Stewart and Clark Gable went to war.
    For the rest of his life he felt guilty and ashamed and decided to become a super patriotic American.

    He was a sh*te actor but he became the cinematic embodiment of Mount Rushmore.

    He was the Clint Eastwood, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Bruce Willis of his day.

    There was decency and goodness at the heart of his films.

    Last edited by Balaclava; 20th November 2013 at 04:43 PM.
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  5. #5
    Darren J. Prior Darren J. Prior is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Cartman View Post

    What I find interesting is the piece on his Scotch-Irish (Ulster Scots) background. The term was already current in the early 19th c., though today most of the 7% of US citizens that enumerated themselves "American" ethnicity are Scotch-Irish, and other UK & Ireland descent i.e. Anglo-Celtic. (About half of all US Whites are Anglo-Celtic i.e. ~35% of total US population).
    Can you define yourself as Irish-American, Scots-American, Anglo-Celtic etc. in the census there?

    Sorry for not posting on John Wayne!
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  6. #6
    DT123 DT123 is offline
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    I'm sure all those Presbyterian United Irishmen would have supported the sectarian murder of their descendants a century or two down the line.
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    The Eagle of the Ninth The Eagle of the Ninth is offline
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    The term Scotch-Irish (as opposed to what we in Ulster call Ulster Scots) is a relatively recent one and should be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Ulster Protestants who made-up 2/3 of emigrants from Ireland to America in the c18 and made up anywhere from half to 3/4 of the American "Patriots" in the War of Independence were never called anything but Irish Protestants/Presbyterians - at the time.

    What seems to have happened was that as the bedraggled Catholic Irish began to arrive in large numbers, the descendants of the c18 immigrants did not want to be associated with the "new Irish" riff-raff and began calling themselves Scotch-Irish. They avoided Scots-Irish, because there were real genuine Scottish immigrants going around at the same time, who would have put them straight.

    A second influence seems to have been the obsession of the antebellum Southern aristocrats with all things "Walter Scott", which encouraged them to affect a Scottish ancestry and what they thought was a Romantic Baronial heritage. That's why the KKK called itself the KLAN. In DW Griffiths "Birth of a Nation", a truly, deeply madly weird film, the gallant Klansmen are headed by a Cameron from Carolina.

    The term "Scotch-Irish" sort of fell out of favour in America when it became a code word word in the South for White, Christian, pro-segrationist, pro-prohbitionist, anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic, anti- Communist anti-everythingist.
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  8. #8
    Eric Cartman Eric Cartman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren J. Prior View Post
    Can you define yourself as Irish-American, Scots-American, Anglo-Celtic etc. in the census there?

    Sorry for not posting on John Wayne!
    Yes (but not Anglo-Celtic).

    You can also state your ethnicity as "American", which is the most popular identification in the South and Appalachia for Whites. These are mainly people who migrated from from the fringes of the then UK of GB & Ireland ca. 1700s to early 1800s, often involuntarily e.g. Catholics (though no established Church meant most became Methodists and Baptists), Romanichals, Nonconformist Protestants i.e. everyone not Episcopalian. So, whereas the population of the eastern seaboard are mainly English in descent (as evidenced by their non-rhotic, accented English: think "New Yooaak", or Virginia Piedmont, "Southen", "The Waaa of Nawwthen Aggression" ), the people of Appalachia and beyond were from Ireland (North and South), Scotland (Highland and Lowland), Wales and southern, western England. Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederacy was 3rd or 4th generation Welsh. "Dorrity", "Daughrety" are peculiar American-only spellings of Doherty, once extent in Ireland in the 18th c. , clues as to when those people came to America, often as "bonded labour" i.e. White slaves.
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  9. #9
    Darren J. Prior Darren J. Prior is offline
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    Thanks!

    The 7% figure for Scotch-Irish. Where did you get that from? And do you know the per cent of Americans/white Americans describing themselves in the census as Irish-Americans and Scots-Americans?
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  10. #10
    Eric Cartman Eric Cartman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by DT123 View Post
    I'm sure all those Presbyterian United Irishmen would have supported the sectarian murder of their descendants a century or two down the line.
    Ah, sure they would've!

    Seriously though, Puritan-derived Congregationalists committed many atrocities against Episcopalians during the revolutionary war, many moved to New Brunswick.
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