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  1. #51
    Pat Mc Larnon Pat Mc Larnon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackers View Post
    Unbelievable bravery wrapped up in the madness of conflict. I saw this in the excellent documentary series about the American Civil War by Ken Burns.

    The Ken Burns series was one of the best documentary series ever made. A highlight was the letters from the ordinary soldiers sent from the battlefields to loved ones at home. Some of them were works of literary greatness.
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  2. #52
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    All very true, however, he was born in the U.S., whereas Clebourne was born in Ovens. I'm not putting down Sheridan, just trying to get people to recognise an Irishman who's virtually unknown in his own land.
    It was never clear where exactly Sheridan was born, and he or his relatives left no statement as to the location. It has been variously described as in Ireland (just before his family departed from Co. Cavan), on an emigrant ship, or just after arrival in the US. I think he was close enough to being born here to be called an Irishman. Americans generally considered first generation Irish-Americans as Irish, anyway.

    It was claimed that Sheridan was deliberately ambiguous about his birthplace because he hoped to run for President. But I find in my reading about the man that he had a revulsion against politics, and considered that Grant had made a massive mistake by pursuing that career.

    Incidentally, Cleburne is not quite forgotten here. The cottage of his birthplace still stood in the 1990s, when a loval Ovens woman showed it to me. It had a plaque erected by the Sons of Confederate Veterans that is probably still there. Also, the house where he was brought up has been largely rebuilt, but looks quite similar to illustrations.
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  3. #53
    KongMing KongMing is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    Its a blind spot they have, they like to deny that the war had anything to do with slavery, despite it being the main cause of seccession.
    Sure the whole thing was about states' rights...namely the rights of certain states' citizenry to own slaves.
    Last edited by KongMing; 18th September 2013 at 08:56 PM. Reason: Pedantism
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  4. #54
    NewGoldDream NewGoldDream is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    Incidentally, Cleburne is not quite forgotten here. The cottage of his birthplace still stood in the 1990s, when a loval Ovens woman showed it to me. It had a plaque erected by the Sons of Confederate Veterans that is probably still there. Also, the house where he was brought up has been largely rebuilt, but looks quite similar to illustrations.
    Where is that in Ovens?

    Never knew that. And have traipsed around a lot of roads in Cork looking for historic sites, never thought there'd be one with a connection to a different Civil War!
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  5. #55
    odie1kanobe odie1kanobe is offline

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    Irishmen fell in significant numbers on both sides in US Civil War with many Irish fighting on Confederate side.

    I have a distant relative who fought as a Johnny Reb under an assummed name.

    Anybody interested in reading of it there are 3 great books in a father and son trilogy.
    Killer Angels
    Gods and Generals
    The Last Full Measure
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  6. #56
    Martin Doyle VC MM. Martin Doyle VC MM. is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewGoldDream View Post
    Where is that in Ovens?

    Never knew that. And have traipsed around a lot of roads in Cork looking for historic sites, never thought there'd be one with a connection to a different Civil War!
    some details here Patrick Ronayne Cleburne’s Cork | Irish in the American Civil War
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  7. #57
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewGoldDream View Post
    Where is that in Ovens?

    Never knew that. And have traipsed around a lot of roads in Cork looking for historic sites, never thought there'd be one with a connection to a different Civil War!
    Quite honestly I forget .. I got in touch with a local woman, her family actually lived in the old Cleburne family home at a place called Grange. The cottage where he was born was called Bridepark Cottage, and the townland Athnowen. I have these details from a biography of Cleburne written by a couple called Purdue.

    The Protestant church is still in Ovens, Cleburne's father was a vestryman and is buried there. Another biographer Irving Buck (who was his friend and adjutant) wrote that on the way to his last, fatal battle, Cleburne passed a beautiful Victorian Gothic Episcopal Church at Ashwood, Tennessee, surrounded by trees like the ones in the old country. He remarked "It would almost be worth dying for, to be buried there". He must have been reminded of the Ovens Church which is quite a beautiful beautiful building in its own right.

    Cleburne was killed at the Battle of Franklin soon afterwards and he was indeed interred at the same church. After the war, the remains were removed to his home town of Helena, Arkansas.

    There is a modern biography by Craig Symonds, but the Irving Buck one is still probably the best because Buck served with Cleburne throughout the war.
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  8. #58
    owedtojoy owedtojoy is offline
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    One forgotten Irishman of the Civil War is Michael Corcoran from Sligo. Oddly enough, a couple of years ago, a memorial to him was unveiled there at Ballymote, also to the Fighting 69th Regiment he led.

    Corcoran was a colonel in the New York Militia and got into trouble in 1860 when he refused to parade hie regiment in honour of the Prince of Wales (the future Edward VII). Corcoran had been in the RIC in Ireland, but emigrated and became a founder of the Fenians.

    The court-martial of Corcoran was forgotten when the Civil War broke out, and Corcoran took part in the Battle of Bull Run and was captured. He was eventually exchanged after a few months, but his absence was to the advantage of Meagher, who took over Irish military leadership in his absence.

    Corcoran did continue to serve and became a Brigadier-General, but was killed in a fall from his horse in 1863, aged only 36. He was a great loss to the Fenians, because Meagher was really only interested in his American political career, whereas Corcoran might have been much more effective in harnessing the Irish from the Union Army in fomenting revolution in Ireland.

    His place was really taken by Thomas Sweeny, who led the ill-fated invasion of Canada.

    Michael Corcoran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  9. #59
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    It was claimed that Sheridan was deliberately ambiguous about his birthplace because he hoped to run for President. .....Incidentally, Cleburne is not quite forgotten here. The cottage of his birthplace still stood in the 1990s, when a loval Ovens woman showed it to me. It had a plaque erected by the Sons of Confederate Veterans that is probably still there. Also, the house where he was brought up has been largely rebuilt, but looks quite similar to illustrations.
    I read that he said he was born in New York or Ohio, I can't remember which but I think he was raised in Ohio. He graduated from West Point, so he may have had to prove he was born in the U.S. to gain entry - a lot of anti Irish catholic prejudice around the time he would have been trying for a place. Glad to hear of the plaque to Cleburne, as I said, I never heard of him until I started reading about the war, he was very highly regarded as a leader, although he fell out of favour for suggesting towards the end that blacks should be freed and enlisted in the confederate army.
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  10. #60
    wombat wombat is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by owedtojoy View Post
    but his absence was to the advantage of Meagher, who took over Irish military leadership in his absence.
    After the war he became governor of Montana and drowned in the Missourri - allegedly he was drunk and fell off a steamer or was murdered, depending if a supporter or opponent told the story.
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