Will DiCaprio depict Brian Boru, in the upcoming Movie?

[Rapscallion]

What about Gabriel Byrne?

[joel]

Were they?

His father survived.

His brother survived, one preceded him in kingship and the other was a cleric if I recall.

If there is such an accusation, then it would only be found in Cogadh Gaedhel re Gallaibh which is not to be trusted for historical accuracy (although is used as a source for military strategy by Marie Therese Flanagan). There is not evidence to suggest that we ever suffered a babylonian captivity by the vikings, but rather raids and lootings, which frankly, we were well capable of doing ourselves.

"Not to be trusted"? - says who? - you?

[Dasayev]

I think his father and brother were killed by the Vikings when he was only a child.

His other brother later became King of Munster but he was assassinated by an alliance of Irish rivals and Vikings.

[Ard-Taoiseach]

I think DiCaprio could bring a lot to the role. Leonardo was very adept at his gritty role as a diamond-dealer in Blood Diamond. I think, with some sculpting and cultural context, he can fill big Brian Boru's shoes.

[Riadach]

Were they?

His father survived.

His brother survived, one preceded him in kingship and the other was a cleric if I recall.

If there is such an accusation, then it would only be found in Cogadh Gaedhel re Gallaibh which is not to be trusted for historical accuracy (although is used as a source for military strategy by Marie Therese Flanagan). There is not evidence to suggest that we ever suffered a babylonian captivity by the vikings, but rather raids and lootings, which frankly, we were well capable of doing ourselves.

"Not to be trusted"? - says who? - you?

Anybody who is worth their degree Joel. No historian seriously relies on the Cogadh for historical fact. The Cogadh is contradicted by many annalistic accounts. It is wholly embellished to imply the Vikings had Ireland in thrall, and the Uí Briain, the saviours of Ireland, drove them from our short. It was twelfth century propaganda based on the biographies of Charlemagne and Alfred to shore up the Uí Briain claim's to the Irish kingship. This is academic consensus I'm quoting you here, not personal opinion.

[Riadach]

I think his father and brother were killed by the Vikings when he was only a child.

His other brother later became King of Munster but he was assassinated by an alliance of Irish rivals and Vikings.

His father was by the vikings of Limerick, but it was in battle. It was not due to a mass-slaughter.

[Catalpa]

I don't think anyone claims it was a war against the Vikings per se, but that does not mean for a second that the battle of Cluain Tarbh wasn't. The cause of the battle was not to prevent the Vikings from taking over Ireland, it was rather an attempt by Maelmórdha of Leinster to shake off the yolk of his ex-brother-inlaw. Naturally he invoked the aid of his nephew Sitrick Silkbeard, who arranged a vast army from caithness, the western Isles and the Orkneys. Had this army won, then there is no doubt they would have capitalised on their advantage. A weakened munster would have left it open completely to their preys, Vikings and Leinstermen looking for spoils of their victory. It could have restarted a new viking age, therefore it was a massive setback to Norse pretensions. Do not forget either, that Canute was able to conquer England with 10,000 men a year later, it is said that the Vikings and Leinstermen at clontarf had 7,000, while Brian himself had 7,400(including his viking allies).

It may have been a pyrrhic victory, and Brian may have not been able to fulfill his initial dream of establishing a dalcassian monarchy of all Ireland, but let us not forget for a second that the victory at Clontarf, was as much a defeat for Norse pretensions on Ireland, the final blow as it were, as it was for Leinster assertions of independence. After this, no Viking settlement was able to act with much independence, and they were truly assimilated into Irish polity.

Nice summary there Riadach, it would have been a bad day for Ireland if the Vikings had won.

Laighin nursed some serious greivances over the centuries given their lowly status amongst the cúigí and the constant exactations made on them by the southern and northern O'Neills and then Brian the 'upstart' and salt to the wounds.

Its no surprise they from time to time allied themsleves with the Dubhlinn Vikings to prop up their numbers.

On the film time will tell but unless Riadach is the Historical Advisor I fear the worst!

[Shankill Browser]

I visited the two cathederals in Armagh recently and was pleasantly surprised to find out that the great man is said to be buried in the grounds of what is now the CoI cathederal.

As for actors, there's only one. It has to be Tommy Lee Jones. His Irish accent is the best I've ever heard. "Basstin pliz. No nims"

[setanta]

I don't think you are right. Men were brought in from all over the Viking world to fight Boru - Iceland, Orkney, Isle of Man, etc. And if Boru was defeated then it may well have resulted in a Viking takeover of Ireland, as they had already done in England.

As it was, the Viking army was destroyed and Viking ambitions in Ireland ended forever.

But Joel, I am right. I did a large part of my degree on Medieval Irish history and covered this period in depth. The medieval propagandists produced a history of the Irish-Viking wars called Cogadh Gaedhel re Gaillaibh. It's this document that has coloured popular (and even past academic) interpretations of the Irish-Viking interaction of the 9th to 12th centuries, and that you are repeating now. The evidence from the time, however, paints a very different picture.

It's not surprising that Vikings came from across the sea to fight at Clontarf given that the Viking cities/towns were sea-facing trading ports with considerable communication and alliances with other Viking settlements. However, there was never any chance whatsoever that the Vikings could have taken control of Ireland in the 11th century. The high-point of their military impact on Irish society was reached during the 9th century. By the time of Brian Ború the Vikings' interactions with the native Irish had become largely integrated into, and subject to, the local, dynastic political scheme.

And Clontarf was principally about that local political scene. It was a battle fought between BB and his allies, including Munster Vikings against a Leinster/Dublin Viking axis. If BB had lost not just his life, but the battle as well, then it would have shattered BB's pretensions towards an all-island monarchy styled on European lines. As it was, BB's death saw the long decline of Munster O'Brien kings. The Vikings themselves remained in place in Dublin until after the arrival of the Normans a century later.

[Riadach]

I would have stated that Muircheartach's death in the 12th century saw the long decline of munster kings. It is arguable whether either Muircheartach or Toirdhealbach ever saw the heights of Brian's Kingship (though in fairness they did come very close) and it is clear that Brian's death put pay to Dalcassian pretensions during the interregnum, but a long decline never truly occurred and their dynasty's fortunes were resurrected within a generation.

I would slightly disagree however, that the loss of Clontarf would not have resulted in a viking resurgence, though I severly doubt they would have taken over Ireland. After the loss, many of these kingdoms turned their attention towards anglo-saxon England, and may have contributed to the victory of Canute in 1015, which was achieved after all, with a mere 8,000 men. A defeat of the Ua Briain Maelseachnaill alliance, would have left a severly weakened middle kingdom on Dublin's doorstep, as well as a weakened munster, the province with most viking settlements. Had sigtrygg inspired confidence in his new found coalition, he may have turned his attention to such, no doubt increasing viking power in Ireland.