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  1. #141
    LamportsEdge LamportsEdge is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Korean View Post
    Probably. Not that it would make a lick of difference if it was proven beyond all doubt that European Jews are descended from the Khazars or whoever. The Israelis are hardly going to dissolve the State of Israel and pack up to go back to Poland when after centuries of being told by Europeans that they're outsiders from the Middle East, descendants of said Europeans tell them that they're really outsiders from Europe after all and it's time to come back.
    No but it does rather explode the nonsense justification bruited about the mediterranean that there existed a 'kingdom of david' upon which the fake and contrived state of israel is founded in the modern era.
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  2. #142
    PO'Neill PO'Neill is offline
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    How could people forget that our unionist friends are supposed to be one of the lost tribes of Israel




    DUP MLA Nelson McCausland who believes that Ulster Protestants are one of the lost tribes of Israel Northern Ireland minister calls on Ulster Museum to promote creationism | Politics | The Guardian
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  3. #143
    Ramps Ramps is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by LamportsEdge View Post
    'Composite-Agreed-Upon Jesus'. It is a correction to the nonsense of determined factaloid statements about a character on whom we know next to nothing other than an arrest record and subsequent execution. All of the fables about this particular historically composed jesus come from interested parties.
    I think we know a little bit more about him than that, but I take your point.
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  4. #144
    Little_Korean Little_Korean is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by LamportsEdge View Post
    No but it does rather explode the nonsense justification bruited about the mediterranean that there existed a 'kingdom of david' upon which the fake and contrived state of israel is founded in the modern era.
    Well, there was a kingdom of Israel with a royal family from the house of David:


    The Tel Dan Inscription: The First Historical Evidence of King David from the Bible


    Few modern Biblical archaeology discoveries have caused as much excitement as the Tel Dan inscription—writing on a ninth-century B.C. stone slab (or stela) that furnished the first historical evidence of King David from the Bible.

    The Tel Dan inscription, or “House of David” inscription, was discovered in 1993 at the site of Tel Dan in northern Israel in an excavation directed by Israeli archaeologist Avraham Biran.

    The broken and fragmentary inscription commemorates the victory of an Aramean king over his two southern neighbors: the “king of Israel” and the “king of the House of David.” In the carefully incised text written in neat Aramaic characters, the Aramean king boasts that he, under the divine guidance of the god Hadad, vanquished several thousand Israelite and Judahite horsemen and charioteers before personally dispatching both of his royal opponents. Unfortunately, the recovered fragments of the “House of David” inscription do not preserve the names of the specific kings involved in this brutal encounter, but most scholars believe the stela recounts a campaign of Hazael of Damascus in which he defeated both Jehoram of Israel and Ahaziah of Judah.
    But again, the State of Israel is no more danger from history than the Republic of Ireland would be if it turned out that the High Kings of Tara were purely a 19th c. nationalist myth.
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  5. #145
    cathalbrugha cathalbrugha is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by derryman View Post
    Correct.
    There are myriad references to Jesus throughout History. There are other writings of the period, about this man that are not included in the bible. Whether he was God or from God or saviour of the world remains a question of faith, but his very existence can not be disputed. People forget that the new testament was never written as a literal historical biography of the life of Jesus but written as Gospels, they were not written by journalists but by men of faith who were responding to different circumstances at the time of writing.
    "They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst." Psalm 69:21

    When Jesus said those words "I thirst" it shows that he certainly believed that it was the final act. That he was fullfilling the prophecy. Of that there's no doubt.

    "... So that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, 'I am thirsty.'" (John 19:28)

    "A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips." (John 19:29)

    "When he had received the drink, Jesus said, 'It is finished.' With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:30)

    What is a container of wine vinegar doing on Golgotha that day? It is posca, a drink popular with soldiers of the Roman army, made by diluting sour wine vinegar with water. All over the empire, posca was the soldier's drink of choice. The soldiers had brought posca to sustain them during their crucifixion duty. They weren't getting drunk on it, just using it to quench their own thirst.

    The point I was making about the Exodus is that it's impossible to locate the exact place where it could've taken place. There's no doubt at all that Jesus did exist. There's no doubt at all that he believed he was fullfilling the Scriptures. After that it's a question of faith.
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  6. #146
    EvotingMachine0197 EvotingMachine0197 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathalbrugha View Post
    "They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst." Psalm 69:21

    When Jesus said those words "I thirst" it shows that he certainly believed that it was the final act. That he was fullfilling the prophecy. Of that there's no doubt.

    "... So that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, 'I am thirsty.'" (John 19:28)

    "A jar of wine vinegar was there, so they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips." (John 19:29)

    "When he had received the drink, Jesus said, 'It is finished.' With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:30)

    What is a container of wine vinegar doing on Golgotha that day? It is posca, a drink popular with soldiers of the Roman army, made by diluting sour wine vinegar with water. All over the empire, posca was the soldier's drink of choice. The soldiers had brought posca to sustain them during their crucifixion duty. They weren't getting drunk on it, just using it to quench their own thirst.

    The point I was making about the Exodus is that it's impossible to locate the exact place where it could've taken place. There's no doubt at all that Jesus did exist. There's no doubt at all that he believed he was fullfilling the Scriptures. After that it's a question of faith.
    Bollox. Even dogs know when to drink. It is a natural evolved behaviour to sense thirst.
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  7. #147
    cathalbrugha cathalbrugha is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by EvotingMachine0197 View Post
    Bollox. Even dogs know when to drink. It is a natural evolved behaviour to sense thirst.
    I'm not trying to convince you of anything. All I'm suggesting is that in his mind he was fullfilling a prophecy. Read back over what I actually said beforehand - P119 - Even if you could prove that Jesus said things like "I thirst" it still doesn't prove that the crucifiction was a "prophecy". That's a matter of faith. Allegedly, if you read up on it, he didn't as you suggest 'drink' anything. He merely said - "I thirst". I've given an explanation as to why vinegar was there that day -

    What is a container of wine vinegar doing on Golgotha that day? It is posca, a drink popular with soldiers of the Roman army, made by diluting sour wine vinegar with water. All over the empire, posca was the soldier's drink of choice. The soldiers had brought posca to sustain them during their crucifixion duty. They weren't getting drunk on it, just using it to quench their own thirst.

    I think it would've been a bit hard to drink one way or the other as he was hung on cross.
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  8. #148
    MrFunkyZombaloo MrFunkyZombaloo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by cathalbrugha View Post
    When it comes to the bible we know that all historians agree that there was a person called Jesus. We know for certain that he was crucified. There's no doubt about that.
    No they do not. No we do not. Yes there is.

    Quote Originally Posted by derryman View Post
    There are myriad references to Jesus throughout History. There are other writings of the period, about this man that are not included in the bible. Whether he was God or from God or saviour of the world remains a question of faith, but his very existence can not be disputed.
    Yes it can.

    People forget that the new testament was never written as a literal historical biography of the life of Jesus but written as Gospels, they were not written by journalists but by men of faith who were responding to different circumstances at the time of writing.
    Handy that... especially considering the Bible is THE go-to source when it comes to this particular myth.

    Quote Originally Posted by cathalbrugha View Post
    When Jesus said those words "I thirst" it shows that he certainly believed that it was the final act. That he was fullfilling the prophecy. Of that there's no doubt.
    The prophecy whereby his absentee father, after ignoring humanity for thousands of years, suddenly decides that his only son should be put to death for the sins of others?

    Some prophecy! Some 'father'!...

    The point I was making about the Exodus is that it's impossible to locate the exact place where it could've taken place.
    Or, equally, it just never happened.

    There's no doubt at all that Jesus did exist.
    Again, yes there is.

    There's no doubt at all that he believed he was fullfilling the Scriptures. After that it's a question of faith.
    No, it's always a question of faith.
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  9. #149
    cathalbrugha cathalbrugha is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunkyZombaloo View Post
    No they do not. No we do not. Yes there is.
    When it comes to the bible we know that all historians agree that there was a person called Jesus. We know for certain that he was crucified. There's no doubt about that.

    I think you'll find that all historians whether they're christians or atheists agree that Jesus did exist. There's no doubt about that.

    The prophecy whereby his absentee father, after ignoring humanity for thousands of years, suddenly decides that his only son should be put to death for the sins of others?

    Some prophecy! Some 'father'!...


    You're dismissing it entirely, but at the same time you're ridiculing it?

    The point I was making about the Exodus is that it's impossible to locate the exact place where it could've taken place.

    Or, equally, it just never happened.

    I've already explained what the words Red Sea would've meant back then and I provided a map of the area. It was a huge area.



    Here's an aerial view of the Dead Sea. The change in 40 years is phenomeonal. Landscapes change. That's why I suggested it would be physically impossible to find archaelogical evidence of the Exodus after a few thousand years.
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  10. #150
    MrFunkyZombaloo MrFunkyZombaloo is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by cathalbrugha View Post
    I think you'll find that all historians whether they're christians or atheists agree that Jesus did exist. There's no doubt about that.
    I think you'll find that's a very bold claim. Care to provide examples of these scholarly agreements and what evidence they're basing them on?

    You're dismissing it entirely, but at the same time you're ridiculing it?
    Yes.

    I've already explained what the words Red Sea would've meant back then and I provided a map of the area. It was a huge area.



    Here's an aerial view of the Dead Sea. The change in 40 years is phenomeonal. Landscapes change. That's why I suggested it would be physically impossible to find archaelogical evidence of the Exodus after a few thousand years.
    So, no evidence of the Exodus then - other than what Moses himself wrote in the Old Testament. Or it simply never happened and he made it all up.
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