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  1. #21
    Cellach Cellach is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by macnessa View Post
    How could Tara become the biggest city in the British Isles when it isnt in the british isles
    It's a geographical term. Please grow up.
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  2. #22
    macnessa macnessa is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitch 22 View Post
    The Irish High Kings would probably still have been at war with the English even if they hadn't invaded in the 12th century.

    James IV of Scotland married Margaret Tudor, the daughter of Henry VII as part of a Treaty of Perpetual Peace.

    When Henry VII's granddaughter Elizabeth I died without an heir, the great grandson of Margaret Tudor, James VI of Scotland became James I of England.

    So it is not impossible that had history been different an Irish King might have inherited the throne of England through similar circumstances and his heirs would have become the Kings and Queens of Great Britain and Ireland.
    Ball cocks!
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  3. #23
    grognard grognard is offline
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    Crusader Kings II - Paradox Interactive

    Make your own history. The real thing sucked. What if?
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  4. #24
    ocianain ocianain is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tea Party Patriot View Post
    That would have been doubtful, not the possibility of switching to a form of Protestantism but a difference of religion between ruler and ruled. If you look at the reformation across most of Europe (including Scotland) the process tended to be bottom up with the peasants converting and the nobles then taking on the new religion in order to preserve their loyalty once it reached a critical mass.
    Tea Party, I must respectfully disagree. Luther published http://artsandsciences.sc.edu/hist/f...heragainst.pdf about 1525, this gave the Princes the imprimatur they needed to smash the peasants, and smash them they did; the peasants remained tied to the land till the 19th century. There was of course the Anabaptist rising later and the Peasant Revolt earlier (Luther mentions their 12 articles), but after the peasants were crushed they weren't going to tell anyone to do anything, they were done. Hundreds of thousands were killed. After their suppression the peasants took the faith of their Prince and his faith changed to reflect political realities.
    Last edited by ocianain; 10th March 2013 at 09:40 PM. Reason: poor sentance structure, incomplete thoughts
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  5. #25
    Hitch 22 Hitch 22 is offline

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    This is the British claim to the Kingdom of Ireland:

    Brian Bóruma, High King of Ireland was killed at the Battle of Clontarf in 1014 and succeeded as King of Munster by his son Donnchad mac Briain.

    Donnchad's daughter Derbforgaill married Diarmait mac Maíl na mBó, King of Leinster and their son was Murchad macDiarmata. Murchad's son was Donnchada mac Murchada, founder of the Mac Murchada or McMurrough dynasty. Donnchada's son was Diarmait Mac Murchada better known as Dermot McMurrough, King of Leinster.

    Aoife McMurrough married Richard De Clare or Strongbow, 2nd Earl of Pembroke who led the Norman invasion of Ireland and Richard De Clare inherited the title of King of Leinster from Dermot his father in law. Their daughter was Isabel de Clare, 4th Countess of Pembroke who married William Marshall, 1st Earl of Pembroke. The title of Earl of Pembroke had become extinct when Richard De Clare's line died out and was given to Marshall.

    Marshall's daughter Isabel Marshall married Gilbert de Clare, 4th Earl of Hertford, 5th Earl of Gloucester and their daughter Isabella of Gloucester and Hertford married Robert de Brus, 5th Lord of Annandale. His son was Robert, 6th Lord of Annandale whose son was Robert De Bruce or Robert I of Scotland, the Scottish King you may be familiar with from Braveheart.

    His brother Edward De Bruce invaded Ireland and Edward was recognized as King of Ireland by Donall O'Neill but he was killed in 1318.

    Robert's daughter Marjorie married Walter, High Stewart of Scotland, who founded the Stewart or Stuart dynasty. Their son was Robert II of Scotland whose son was Robert III whose son was James I whose son was James II whose son was James III whose son was James IV.

    James IV married Margaret Tudor, the sister of the King of England, Henry VII.
    Their son was James V whose daughter was Mary, Queen of Scots executed by her first cousin, once removed, Queen Elizabeth I, the daughter of Henry VIII.

    When Queen Elizabeth died, James VI son of Mary, Queen of Scots, became James I of Scotland and England.

    James I married Anne of Denmark and their daughter was Elizabeth of Bohemia who married Frederick V, Elector Palatine. Their daughter was Sophia of Hanover who married Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover.

    Their son was George I who succeeded Queen Anne who died without an heir. Anne had been the younger sister of the childless Queen Mary II who married the homosexual William III of Orange. Mary had been the first daughter of the last Catholic monarch of England, James II, brother of the restored Charles II, son of Charles I, the executed son of James I. William III of Orange of course defeated James II at the Battle of Boyne in 1690.

    George I was succeeded by his son George II who was preceded by his son Frederick, Prince of Wales and succeeded by his son George III. George III's fourth son Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn married Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld and was the father of Queen Victoria.

    She succeeded her uncle William IV and her son by Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was Edward VII and his son was George V whose son was Edward VIII who abdicated. He was succeeded by his younger brother George VI who was the father of Queen Elizabeth II.
    .
    Last edited by Hitch 22; 10th March 2013 at 10:26 PM.
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  6. #26
    Riadach Riadach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitch 22 View Post
    This is the British claim to the Kingdom of Ireland:

    Elizabeth II is also a descendant from Brian Boru.

    Brian Bóruma was High King of Ireland. Brian was killed at the Battle of Clontarf in 1014 and succeeded as King of Munster by his son Donnchad mac Briain.

    Donnchad's daughter Derbforgaill married Diarmait mac Maíl na mBó, King of Leinster and their son was Murchad macDiarmata. Murchad's son was Donnchada mac Murchada, founder of the Mac Murchada or McMurrough dynasty. Donnchada's son was Diarmait Mac Murchada better known as Dermot McMurrough, King of Leinster.

    Aoife McMurrough married Richard De Clare or Strongbow, 2nd Earl of Pembroke who led the Norman invasion of Ireland and Richard De Clare inherited the title of King of Leinster from Dermot his father in law. Their daughter was Isabel de Clare, 4th Countess of Pembroke who married William Marshall, 1st Earl of Pembroke. The title of Earl of Pembroke had become extinct when Richard De Clare's line died out and was given to Marshal.

    Marshal's daughter Isabel Marshal married Gilbert de Clare, 4th Earl of Hertford, 5th Earl of Gloucester and their daughter Isabella of Gloucester and Hertford married Robert de Brus, 5th Lord of Annandale. His son was Robert, 6th Lord of Annandale whose son was Robert De Bruce or Robert I of Scotland, the Scottish King you may be familiar with from Braveheart.

    His brother Edward De Bruce invaded Ireland and Edward was recognized as King of Ireland by Donall O'Neill but not by the Pope and Edward was killed in 1318.

    Robert's daughter Marjorie married Walter, High Stewart of Scotland, who founded the Stewart or Stuart dynasty. Their son was Robert II of Scotland whose son was Robert III whose son was James I whose son was James II whose son was James III whose son was James IV.

    James IV married Margaret Tudor, the sister of King of England Henry VII.
    Their son was James V whose daughter was Mary, Queen of Scots executed by Queen Elizabeth I, the daughter of Henry VIII.

    When Queen Elizabeth died, James VI became James I of Scotland and England.

    James I married Anne of Denmark and their daughter was Elizabeth of Bohemia who married Frederick V, Elector Palatine. Their daughter was Sophia of Hanover who married Ernest Augustus, Elector of Hanover.

    Their son was George I who succeeded Queen Anne who died without an heir. Anne had been the younger sister of the childless Queen Mary II who married the homosexual William III or Orange. Mary had been the first daughter of the last Catholic monarch of England, James II, brother of the restored Charles II, son of Charles I, the executed son of James I. William III of Orange of course defeated James II at the Battle of Boyne in 1690.

    George I was succeeded by his son George II who was preceded by his son Frederick, Prince of Wales and succeeded by his son George III. His fourth son Edward, Duke of Kent and Strathearn married Princess Victoria of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld and was the father of Queen Victoria.

    She succeeded her uncle William IV and her son by Prince Albert of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was Edward VII and his son was George V whose son was Edward VIII who abdicated. He was succeeded by his younger brother George VI who was the father of Queen Elizabeth II.
    Their claim is about equal then to every single Irish person.
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  7. #27
    toxic avenger toxic avenger is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riadach View Post
    Their claim is about equal then to every single Irish person.
    Almost certainly a lot less, in fact. Every one of us with Gaelic ancestry is probably descended from Gaelic kings multiple times over.
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  8. #28
    Hitch 22 Hitch 22 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    Almost certainly a lot less, in fact. Every one of us with Gaelic ancestry is probably descended from Gaelic kings multiple times over.
    But if you are not of the rightful succession you don't count.

    If Catholics were allowed to be British monarchs the rightful King of Ireland would be this man if you accept that Dermot McMurrough was the rightful High King of Ireland when he passed the Kingship of Leinster to his son in law Richard De Clare:



    Franz Herzog von Bayern is a descendant of the Catholic Stuart Pretenders who lost the throne to the House of Hanover.

    Franz, Duke of Bavaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Another rival would be Desmond O'Conor Don of Sussex in England who can claim to be both the rightful King of Connaught and most senior Gaelic descendant of the last High King of Ireland.
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  9. #29
    Riadach Riadach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitch 22 View Post
    But if you are not of the rightful succession you don't count.
    The rightful succession of the High-Kingship was descided by tanistry.

    If Catholics were allowed to be British monarchs the rightful King of Ireland would be this man if you accept that Dermot McMurrough was the rightful High King of Ireland when he passed the Kingship of Leinster to his son in law Richard De Clare:
    Why on earth would you accept that, when he never made that claim?
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  10. #30
    dunno dunno is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by grognard View Post
    Crusader Kings II - Paradox Interactive

    Make your own history. The real thing sucked. What if?
    That game is good, too good in fact when a person has other things to do on the weekend and evening. My lord of Connacht eventually managed to conquer the whole British isles, most of them after several centuries.
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