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  1. #1
    parentheses parentheses is offline
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    British spies aided the attack on Pearl Harbor

    A BBC programme to be shown on BBC 2 television tonight at 9pm will show how high ranking British spies helped the Japanese to plan the Pearl Harbor attack.

    One was Lord Semphill. He began aiding the Japanese during the Anglo-Japanese alliance. He played a crucial role in building up the Japanese carrier fleet during the 1920s and 30s. In 1939 he was working for the British admiralty. In 1941 he reported on discussions between Roosevelt and Churchill which showed much of the American fleet was deployed in the Atlantic and could not respond to an attack on Pearl Harbor. Despite knowledge of his treachery becoming known, the British took no action against him beyond a demotion.

    The other spy was Frederick Rutland who also helped to develop the Japanese carrier fleet. Later he moved to Hawaii where he worked for US military companies whose secrets he sent to Tokyo. In 1941 he sent photographs of Pearl Harbor to Japan. He was detained during the war but never prosecuted. BBC Two - The Fall of Singapore: The Great Betrayal
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  2. #2
    BlackLion BlackLion is offline
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    you have got to give it to the english they are very good at getting others to do their dirty work.
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  3. #3
    parentheses parentheses is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLion View Post
    you have got to give it to the english they are very good at getting others to do their dirty work.
    The thing that raises suspicions is Churchill's remark after he heard of Pearl Harbor
    "To have the United States at our side was to me the greatest joy. Now at this very moment I knew the United States was in the war, up to the neck and in to the death. So we had won after all!...Hitler's fate was sealed. Mussolini's fate was sealed. As for the Japanese, they would be ground to powder."
    - Prime Minister Winston Churchill (after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor)
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  4. #4
    picador picador is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    A BBC programme to be shown on BBC 2 television tonight at 9pm will show how high ranking British spies helped the Japanese to plan the Pearl Harbor attack.

    One was Lord Semphill. He began aiding the Japanese during the Anglo-Japanese alliance. He played a crucial role in building up the Japanese carrier fleet during the 1920s and 30s. In 1939 he was working for the British admiralty. In 1941 he reported on discussions between Roosevelt and Churchill which showed much of the American fleet was deployed in the Atlantic and could not respond to an attack on Pearl Harbor. Despite knowledge of his treachery becoming known, the British took no action against him beyond a demotion.

    The other spy was Frederick Rutland who also helped to develop the Japanese carrier fleet. Later he moved to Hawaii where he worked for US military companies whose secrets he sent to Tokyo. In 1941 he sent photographs of Pearl Harbor to Japan. He was detained during the war but never prosecuted. BBC Two - The Fall of Singapore: The Great Betrayal
    Thanks for the heads up. Look forward to this.

    The British general who surrendered Singpore was Percival, formerly of the Essex regiment stationed at Bandon.
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  5. #5
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by picador View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. Look forward to this.

    The British general who surrendered Singpore was Percival, formerly of the Essex regiment stationed at Bandon.
    No better place....
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  6. #6
    picador picador is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schomberg View Post
    No better place....
    Are you a descendant?
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  7. #7
    Desperate Dan Desperate Dan is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    A BBC programme to be shown on BBC 2 television tonight at 9pm will show how high ranking British spies helped the Japanese to plan the Pearl Harbor attack.

    One was Lord Semphill. He began aiding the Japanese during the Anglo-Japanese alliance. He played a crucial role in building up the Japanese carrier fleet during the 1920s and 30s. In 1939 he was working for the British admiralty. In 1941 he reported on discussions between Roosevelt and Churchill which showed much of the American fleet was deployed in the Atlantic and could not respond to an attack on Pearl Harbor. Despite knowledge of his treachery becoming known, the British took no action against him beyond a demotion.

    The other spy was Frederick Rutland who also helped to develop the Japanese carrier fleet. Later he moved to Hawaii where he worked for US military companies whose secrets he sent to Tokyo. In 1941 he sent photographs of Pearl Harbor to Japan. He was detained during the war but never prosecuted. BBC Two - The Fall of Singapore: The Great Betrayal
    That is where the brits fall down, their neighbors never could trust them, even to the present day.
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  8. #8
    Schomberg Schomberg is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by picador View Post
    Are you a descendant?
    No, we didn't own any horses I'm afraid!
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  9. #9
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline

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    I thought this had been known about for years - there was a book about it called "Betrayal at Pearl Harbour" if I recall.

    It was crappy, but that's war.

    Europe was being taken over by Nazis, we we the only country left in Europe who weren't on Germany's side, neutral, or had been successfully invaded and occupied.

    The USA was neutral and didn't care either way. They certainly didn't care about Britain being invaded.

    I can't really see it as a "betrayal" because America wasn't our ally at that point - they were neutral. They weren't our enemies, but they weren't our friends or allies either. They weren't friends with Nazi Germany or Japan, but they weren't their enemies either.

    If Pearl Harbour hadn't happened, then Britain and Ireland would have been part of the Third Reich, British and Irish Jews, homosexuals, disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses and gypsies would have been murdered, and the world would have been a much bleaker place.
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  10. #10
    Desperate Dan Desperate Dan is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by blokesbloke View Post
    I thought this had been known about for years - there was a book about it called "Betrayal at Pearl Harbour" if I recall.

    It was crappy, but that's war.

    Europe was being taken over by Nazis, we we the only country left in Europe who weren't on Germany's side, neutral, or had been successfully invaded and occupied.

    The USA was neutral and didn't care either way. They certainly didn't care about Britain being invaded.

    I can't really see it as a "betrayal" because America wasn't our ally at that point - they were neutral. They weren't our enemies, but they weren't our friends or allies either. They weren't friends with Nazi Germany or Japan, but they weren't their enemies either.

    If Pearl Harbour hadn't happened, then Britain and Ireland would have been part of the Third Reich, British and Irish Jews, homosexuals, disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses and gypsies would have been murdered, and the world would have been a much bleaker place.
    They didn't win the war, but they have us all by the bollacks now.
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