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  1. #21
    Eric Cartman Eric Cartman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by blokesbloke View Post
    I thought this had been known about for years - there was a book about it called "Betrayal at Pearl Harbour" if I recall.

    It was crappy, but that's war.

    Europe was being taken over by Nazis, we we the only country left in Europe who weren't on Germany's side, neutral, or had been successfully invaded and occupied.

    The USA was neutral and didn't care either way. They certainly didn't care about Britain being invaded.

    I can't really see it as a "betrayal" because America wasn't our ally at that point - they were neutral. They weren't our enemies, but they weren't our friends or allies either. They weren't friends with Nazi Germany or Japan, but they weren't their enemies either.

    If Pearl Harbour hadn't happened, then Britain and Ireland would have been part of the Third Reich, British and Irish Jews, homosexuals, disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses and gypsies would have been murdered, and the world would have been a much bleaker place.
    Well, certainly for Graham Norton and Alan Shatter...
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  2. #22
    Tomas Mor Tomas Mor is offline

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    The world owes a great debt to Churchill for holding out when a lot of British establishment would have surrendered. And at times he too thought Britain would lose. And only for US and Russia Hitler would have won, and maybe installed Sean Russell in charge here.
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  3. #23
    Houyhnhnm Houyhnhnm is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diawlbach View Post
    SFAIK, wasn't Japan already at war with Britain at that point? Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk three days later.
    Why let the truth get in the way of a good conspiracy theory?
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  4. #24
    seabhcan seabhcan is offline
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    Its very likely that if the US hadn't entered the war at this point the UK would have been defeated, but not invaded as Germany never had the resources to invade. They would have invaded the USSR to get oil, but have been defeated. The USSR would have swept through to the atlantic, but unable to hold so much territory, and collapsed much sooner.

    Economics ultimately determined the outcome of the European war. The UK and US roll wasn't as critical as people imagine.
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  5. #25
    Nemesiscorporation Nemesiscorporation is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by parentheses View Post
    The thing that raises suspicions is Churchill's remark after he heard of Pearl Harbor
    When referencing Churchill, you need to always remember he was a bloodthirsty, glory seeking moron.
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  6. #26
    Analyzer Analyzer is offline
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    Actually, this is a bit of a blow for British Intelligence.

    And something which was clearly harder to accept than the various defectors to the Soviet Union, including the Kim Philby disaster.
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  7. #27
    seabhcan seabhcan is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesiscorporation View Post
    When referencing Churchill, you need to always remember he was a bloodthirsty, glory seeking moron.
    He was not a moron.
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  8. #28
    Nemesiscorporation Nemesiscorporation is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by blokesbloke View Post
    I thought this had been known about for years - there was a book about it called "Betrayal at Pearl Harbour" if I recall.

    It was crappy, but that's war.

    Europe was being taken over by Nazis, we we the only country left in Europe who weren't on Germany's side, neutral, or had been successfully invaded and occupied.

    The USA was neutral and didn't care either way. They certainly didn't care about Britain being invaded.

    I can't really see it as a "betrayal" because America wasn't our ally at that point - they were neutral. They weren't our enemies, but they weren't our friends or allies either. They weren't friends with Nazi Germany or Japan, but they weren't their enemies either.

    If Pearl Harbour hadn't happened, then Britain and Ireland would have been part of the Third Reich, British and Irish Jews, homosexuals, disabled, Jehovah's Witnesses and gypsies would have been murdered, and the world would have been a much bleaker place.
    Thats the thing most Irish don't have any idea about. Ireland would have been under the Nazi's if they had won, with all the horrors that would have brought to Ireland. They would have started with Jews, communists, trade unionists, etc, but it would have quickly spread beyond that. Almost every book on eugenics from the 1800', and early 1900's refers to Irish as subhuman. I know full well what the Nazi's would have made of that.
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  9. #29
    westernyelp westernyelp is offline
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    Was in Pearl harbour today and took a boat trip to the Arizona memorial. I'd day about 80% of those on the boat were Japanese. I found it a bit bizarre to see them posing for photos above the wreck which still contains the remains of many who went down with her.
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  10. #30
    Nemesiscorporation Nemesiscorporation is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    They didn't win the war, but they have us all by the bollacks now.
    Only because Ireland handed them to Germany on a silver plate and they don't want them.
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