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  1. #11
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    That is where the brits fall down, their neighbors never could trust them, even to the present day.
    The USA aren't our neighbours, and at that point they weren't our friends or allies either. What particular reason did they have to trust us? What particular reason did we have to trust them?
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  2. #12
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    They didn't win the war, but they have us all by the bollacks now.
    Yes. Pity Ireland joined the euro, and pity Irish people who were against joining were told they were like "little Englanders", or bad Europeans, isn't it?

    Happily, the UK did not join, to the usual chorus of abuse about being "bad Europeans".

    Sadly, we are still in the EU and of course the euro's self-destruct mission is causing the entire world to worry, including the Americans.

    This is where the EU falls down - its own members, let alone neighbours or allies, never could trust it, even to the present day....
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  3. #13
    Desperate Dan Desperate Dan is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by blokesbloke View Post
    Yes. Pity Ireland joined the euro, and pity Irish people who were against joining were told they were like "little Englanders", or bad Europeans, isn't it?

    Happily, the UK did not join, to the usual chorus of abuse about being "bad Europeans".

    Sadly, we are still in the EU and of course the euro's self-destruct mission is causing the entire world to worry, including the Americans.

    This is where the EU falls down - its own members, let alone neighbours or allies, never could trust it, even to the present day....
    Hopefully things will change, the anglegrinder, according to reports from the G8, she was side lined.
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  4. #14
    Kommunist Kommunist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by blokesbloke View Post
    The USA aren't our neighbours, and at that point they weren't our friends or allies either. What particular reason did they have to trust us? What particular reason did we have to trust them?
    Wrong, the US and the president were already giving arms sales to GB on preferential terms, not only this but trade was also increased in order to keep GB afloat. Believe it or not, Roosevelt was slowly getting the US involved with European affairs and actively working to sway congress in order to sway them in favour of going into depth against the Axis.

    With that said, US foreign policy was very muddled at this point, Roosevelt had different goals to what the people wanted and as such planning an attack on Pearl harbour makes sense from Britain's point of view, but don't say that the US weren't assisting Europe at this point, they very much were already tip-toeing into the war.
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  5. #15
    Tim Johnston Tim Johnston is offline
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    You'd think they'd have done a better cover-up job on that one.
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  6. #16
    ManUnited ManUnited is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desperate Dan View Post
    Hopefully things will change, the anglegrinder, according to reports from the G8, she was side lined.
    "The anglegrinder"..
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  7. #17
    William T Riker William T Riker is offline

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    Proof of Machiavelli's dictum that the ends very often do justify the means.
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  8. #18
    Kommunist Kommunist is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by William T Riker View Post
    Proof of Machiavelli's dictum that the ends very often do justify the means.
    Good point actually, didn't think of it that way.
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  9. #19
    blokesbloke blokesbloke is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kommunist View Post
    Wrong, the US and the president were already giving arms sales to GB on preferential terms, not only this but trade was also increased in order to keep GB afloat. Believe it or not, Roosevelt was slowly getting the US involved with European affairs and actively working to sway congress in order to sway them in favour of going into depth against the Axis.

    With that said, US foreign policy was very muddled at this point, Roosevelt had different goals to what the people wanted and as such planning an attack on Pearl harbour makes sense from Britain's point of view, but don't say that the US weren't assisting Europe at this point, they very much were already tip-toeing into the war.
    I didn't say they weren't "assisting us", I said they weren't our allies, which they weren't until after Pearl Harbour. I was very clear on that point.

    As for arms sales and trade, yes I am sure the USA was more than happy to sell us arms and trade with us.

    As for "preferential terms", it's only relatively recently Britain finished paying off our war debt to the USA on the lend-lease scheme. There was never any intention but to get their money back with interest - the preferential terms were a short-term thing for longer-term gain.

    Besides, it's supply and demand, isn't it? If you're selling arms to a country, you take what they can afford to give you. Britain could not afford to pay top prices for arms - it was discounted sales or none. Guess which the good old capitalist USA picked?

    As I said, we were left alone in Europe as the only country not on Germany's side, neutral, or invaded and occupied by Germany.

    We couldn't wait for the USA to "tip-toe" into the war - we'd been waiting long enough. If we'd left them to their tip-toeing, we'd have been defeated and it wouldn't have been long before most of Europe was under Nazi control, and it would have been too late for the USA to be tip-toeing anywhere. In fact a Nazified Europe might well have been a formibidble enemy for the USA, which would have had significant repercussion for them, which would have made Pearl Harbour look minor in comparison.
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  10. #20
    Diawlbach Diawlbach is offline

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    SFAIK, wasn't Japan already at war with Britain at that point? Prince of Wales and Repulse were sunk three days later.
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