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**thegeneral** · 23rd July 2007, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by CJH

Originally Posted by Rocky

Cosgrave, Costello and Dev all had much the same position with the Catholic Church. They were all strongly Catholic, who took what the Catholic Church said very seriously, but at the same time were willing to go against the Catholic Church if they strongly disagreed with it and were more then willing to use the Catholic Church for political reasons at various times.

Bascially I'd agree with that (though I don't know of any incident of Dev capitulating to the hierarchy a la Costello)

My earlier post was not, as merriweather seemed to think, to suggest that Costello was a Catholic sectarian. It was simply to show that EOD's 'argument', that all was well in liberal secular Ireland under CnaG until nasty Catholic Dev came along and single handedly turned the state into a reactionary priest-ridden hellhole, is so much garbage. Dev, and his FG opponents, were men who fully reflected the prevailing ethos of the times.

Before the 1932 General Election Archbishop McQuaid had approached Cosgrave about turning the GPO into a cathedral. He argued that every other predominatly European Catholic capital city had a cathedral on the main street and that so should Dublin. Cosgrave agreed. Then following the election result McQuaid hoped de Valera would agree as well but he refused. De Valera was opposed to the Knights of Columbanus, arguing that in a 95% Catholic state an organisation dedicated to advancing Catholic interests was superfluous but many in FG, and indeed Labour, were Knights throughout the 1930s and 40s.

Throughout the same period de Valera was attacked as being Jewish by FG propagandists, together with being Mexican, Spanish or a half-breed among others, who sought to play on religion to increase their political support. Indeed how FF and de Valera were not in hock with the Church is demonstrated simply in how the Mother and Child Scheme was enacted by Jim Ryan in 1951, almost unchanged from what Browne proposed and with his support, whereas the Knights of Columbanus and the doctors in FG and Labour brought it down. Could also easily point to how Frank Aiken didn't care about excommunication over the admission of China to the UN Security Council and how de Valera , largely, helped end the Fethard-on-Se boycott which was incidentally supported by Brendan Corish, a Knight of Columbanus.

**meriwether** · 23rd July 2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by thegeneral

Originally Posted by CJH

Originally Posted by Rocky

Cosgrave, Costello and Dev all had much the same position with the Catholic Church. They were all strongly Catholic, who took what the Catholic Church said very seriously, but at the same time were willing to go against the Catholic Church if they strongly disagreed with it and were more then willing to use the Catholic Church for political reasons at various times.

Bascially I'd agree with that (though I don't know of any incident of Dev capitulating to the hierarchy a la Costello)

My earlier post was not, as merriweather seemed to think, to suggest that Costello was a Catholic sectarian. It was simply to show that EOD's 'argument', that all was well in liberal secular Ireland under CnaG until nasty Catholic Dev came along and single handedly turned the state into a reactionary priest-ridden hellhole, is so much garbage. Dev, and his FG opponents, were men who fully reflected the prevailing ethos of the times.

Before the 1932 General Election Archbishop McQuaid had approached Cosgrave about turning the GPO into a cathedral. He argued that every other predominatly European Catholic capital city had a cathedral on the main street and that so should Dublin. Cosgrave agreed. Then following the election result McQuaid hoped de Valera would agree as well but he refused. De Valera was opposed to the Knights of Columbanus, arguing that in a 95% Catholic state an organisation dedicated to advancing Catholic interests was superfluous but many in FG, and indeed Labour, were Knights throughout the 1930s and 40s.

Throughout the same period de Valera was attacked as being Jewish by FG propagandists, together with being Mexican, Spanish or a half-breed among others, who sought to play on religion to increase their political support. Indeed how FF and de Valera were not in hock with the Church is demonstrated simply in how the Mother and Child Scheme was enacted by Jim Ryan in 1951, almost unchanged from what Browne proposed and with his support, whereas the Knights of Columbanus and the doctors in FG and Labour brought it down. Could also easily point to how Frank Aiken didn't care about excommunication over the admission of China to the UN Security Council and how de Valera , largely, helped end the Fethard-on-Se boycott which was incidentally supported by Brendan Corish, a Knight of Columbanus.

Or you could point to McQuaid and his influence on the 1937 constitutiuon.
Or you could point to Dev stating he would employ a Catholic over a Protestant regardinng the Mayo librarian issue.
And heck, if you want to be mean about his nationality, you could point to he himself playing the Mexican/half breed card to get out of being executed in 1916, couldn't you?

**thegeneral** · 23rd July 2007, 10:22 AM