Irish History left to fill in on Wikipedia

[BuachaillBeo]

However Dev deliberately set out to pursue an economic war he knew we had no hope of winning and in the process he practically destroyed any hope of a fledging industrial base. Anyone from a farming background should ask teir grandparents what Dev's economic war achieved. If the man was serious about things he should have known it was the wrong issue to pick a fight over.

Didn't the Economic War culminate in the Anglo-Irish Agreement which gave us back the 3 Treaty ports and so allowed us to remain neutral during the Emergency (something which enjoyed cross-party support... memory's a bit hazy (not from being there but from since i read it) but wasn't a high ranking FGer kicked out of the party for not supporting neutrality?). The fact that the snap election of '33 gave such good results for FF showed the people approved of Dev's policies, one of the main ones being the dismantelling of the Treaty, something which the Economic War contributed to a lot. Anyway, FF came to power in '27 on 2 main policies - the dismantelling of the Treaty, and the abolishing of land annuities - the people spoke and spoke again and there was no other way to solve the problem. the agreement in '38 showed the success (sorry if dates are out a bit but i think they're ok!)......

That might seem a bit biased towards FF.... but i think it's ok really... just kind of shows how history can be put across - and i dare your assessment of the history of that period is far from objective. It's what the people voted for... thought ye lot were mad into ye're democracy

[CJH]

BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.

Dear Christ, it gets worse.

So when FF don't help the working classes, its because they are right wing and don't care. And when they do, its because they are bribing them. And the working classes are all layabout scumbags, so f*ck em anyway.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe all this.

BTW, all that guff about 'Catholic' dictatorship? The only major criticism that the 1937 consitution attracted was from right-wing Catholics annoyed at how secular and liberal it was (incidentally, how many other governments in Europe in the 1930s were explicitly offering protection to the Jewish population in their basic laws?). Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

And it wasn't Dev who stated that he was 'a Catholic first and an Irishman second'. That was John A Costello, and given how little you know about history, I'll probably have to remind you that he was a Taoiseach for FG. Do you know what Costello also did? He completely capitulated to the Catholic hierarchy over the Mother and Child affair. And can you guess who introduced virtually all the components of that scheme into Irish law? That's right, big bad Dev. FF was so sectarian that none other than Noel Browne himself decided to join the party after CnaP imploded.

Learn something about Irish history, and then come back to the thread

[meriwether]

BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.

Dear Christ, it gets worse.

So when FF don't help the working classes, its because they are right wing and don't care. And when they do, its because they are bribing them. And the working classes are all layabout scumbags, so f*ck em anyway.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe all this.

BTW, all that guff about 'Catholic' dictatorship? The only major criticism that the 1937 consitution attracted was from right-wing Catholics annoyed at how secular and liberal it was (incidentally, how many other governments in Europe in the 1930s were explicitly offering protection to the Jewish population in their basic laws?). Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

And it wasn't Dev who stated that he was 'a Catholic first and an Irishman second'. That was John A Costello, and given how little you know about history, I'll probably have to remind you that he was a Taoiseach for FG. Do you know what Costello also did? He completely capitulated to the Catholic hierarchy over the Mother and Child affair. And can you guess who introduced virtually all the components of that scheme into Irish law? That's right, big bad Dev. FF was so sectarian that none other than Noel Browne himself decided to join the party after CnaP imploded.

Learn something about Irish history, and then come back to the thread

Didnt Dev once say something interesting about the merits of employing a Catholic librarian versus a Prod one down in Mayo at some stage?
What was it CJH?

[BuachaillBeo]

Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

Ya sure wasn't McQuaid very frustrated with how his proposals turned out in the end like... more research on the part of the earl anyway i say...

[CJH]

BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.

Dear Christ, it gets worse.

So when FF don't help the working classes, its because they are right wing and don't care. And when they do, its because they are bribing them. And the working classes are all layabout scumbags, so f*ck em anyway.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe all this.

BTW, all that guff about 'Catholic' dictatorship? The only major criticism that the 1937 consitution attracted was from right-wing Catholics annoyed at how secular and liberal it was (incidentally, how many other governments in Europe in the 1930s were explicitly offering protection to the Jewish population in their basic laws?). Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

And it wasn't Dev who stated that he was 'a Catholic first and an Irishman second'. That was John A Costello, and given how little you know about history, I'll probably have to remind you that he was a Taoiseach for FG. Do you know what Costello also did? He completely capitulated to the Catholic hierarchy over the Mother and Child affair. And can you guess who introduced virtually all the components of that scheme into Irish law? That's right, big bad Dev. FF was so sectarian that none other than Noel Browne himself decided to join the party after CnaP imploded.

Learn something about Irish history, and then come back to the thread

Didnt Dev once say something interesting about the merits of employing a Catholic librarian versus a Prod one down in Mayo at some stage?
What was it CJH?

Yeah he said something, can't remember what exactly. True04 used to be good for pulling random quotes like that out of his arse. He opposed the boycott in Wexford in the 1950s as well, but can't remember too much about that either

Dev wasn't perfect by any means, but to suggest his was some sort of Catholic autocrat is wrong.

[Kerrygold]

Would that be the same Niall C Harrington who was fired from the Guards for beating a Protestant who had the nerve to chat up a local Catholic girl?

And thats relevant to what exactly? He was a Free State Officer and a Garda. No skin off my nose mucker.

[meriwether]

BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.

Dear Christ, it gets worse.

So when FF don't help the working classes, its because they are right wing and don't care. And when they do, its because they are bribing them. And the working classes are all layabout scumbags, so f*ck em anyway.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe all this.

BTW, all that guff about 'Catholic' dictatorship? The only major criticism that the 1937 consitution attracted was from right-wing Catholics annoyed at how secular and liberal it was (incidentally, how many other governments in Europe in the 1930s were explicitly offering protection to the Jewish population in their basic laws?). Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

And it wasn't Dev who stated that he was 'a Catholic first and an Irishman second'. That was John A Costello, and given how little you know about history, I'll probably have to remind you that he was a Taoiseach for FG. Do you know what Costello also did? He completely capitulated to the Catholic hierarchy over the Mother and Child affair. And can you guess who introduced virtually all the components of that scheme into Irish law? That's right, big bad Dev. FF was so sectarian that none other than Noel Browne himself decided to join the party after CnaP imploded.

Learn something about Irish history, and then come back to the thread

Didnt Dev once say something interesting about the merits of employing a Catholic librarian versus a Prod one down in Mayo at some stage?
What was it CJH?

Yeah he said something, can't remember what exactly. True04 used to be good for pulling random quotes like that out of his arse. He opposed the boycott in Wexford in the 1950s as well, but can't remember too much about that either

Dev wasn't perfect by any means, but to suggest his was some sort of Catholic autocrat is wrong.

Yeah, it might add some interesting insight into your comparison of Costello and Dev vis a vis Catholic sectarianism.

[Rocky]

BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.

Dear Christ, it gets worse.

So when FF don't help the working classes, its because they are right wing and don't care. And when they do, its because they are bribing them. And the working classes are all layabout scumbags, so f*ck em anyway.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe all this.

BTW, all that guff about 'Catholic' dictatorship? The only major criticism that the 1937 consitution attracted was from right-wing Catholics annoyed at how secular and liberal it was (incidentally, how many other governments in Europe in the 1930s were explicitly offering protection to the Jewish population in their basic laws?). Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

And it wasn't Dev who stated that he was 'a Catholic first and an Irishman second'. That was John A Costello, and given how little you know about history, I'll probably have to remind you that he was a Taoiseach for FG. Do you know what Costello also did? He completely capitulated to the Catholic hierarchy over the Mother and Child affair. And can you guess who introduced virtually all the components of that scheme into Irish law? That's right, big bad Dev. FF was so sectarian that none other than Noel Browne himself decided to join the party after CnaP imploded.

Learn something about Irish history, and then come back to the thread

Didnt Dev once say something interesting about the merits of employing a Catholic librarian versus a Prod one down in Mayo at some stage?
What was it CJH?

Yeah he said something, can't remember what exactly. True04 used to be good for pulling random quotes like that out of his arse. He opposed the boycott in Wexford in the 1950s as well, but can't remember too much about that either

Dev wasn't perfect by any means, but to suggest his was some sort of Catholic autocrat is wrong.

Yeah, it might add some interesting insight into your comparison of Costello and Dev vis a vis Catholic sectarianism.

Cosgrave, Costello and Dev all had much the same position with the Catholic Church. They were all strongly Catholic, who took what the Catholic Church said very seriously, but at the same time were willing to go against the Catholic Church if they strongly disagreed with it and were more then willing to use the Catholic Church for political reasons at various times.

[CJH]

[quote=Rocky]

BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.

Dear Christ, it gets worse.

So when FF don't help the working classes, its because they are right wing and don't care. And when they do, its because they are bribing them. And the working classes are all layabout scumbags, so f*ck em anyway.

I hope, for your sake, that you don't really believe all this.

BTW, all that guff about 'Catholic' dictatorship? The only major criticism that the 1937 consitution attracted was from right-wing Catholics annoyed at how secular and liberal it was (incidentally, how many other governments in Europe in the 1930s were explicitly offering protection to the Jewish population in their basic laws?). Indeed, Bunreacht was so progressive that it still works perfectly in these secular, anti-religious times.

And it wasn't Dev who stated that he was 'a Catholic first and an Irishman second'. That was John A Costello, and given how little you know about history, I'll probably have to remind you that he was a Taoiseach for FG. Do you know what Costello also did? He completely capitulated to the Catholic hierarchy over the Mother and Child affair. And can you guess who introduced virtually all the components of that scheme into Irish law? That's right, big bad Dev. FF was so sectarian that none other than Noel Browne himself decided to join the party after CnaP imploded.

Learn something about Irish history, and then come back to the thread

Didnt Dev once say something interesting about the merits of employing a Catholic librarian versus a Prod one down in Mayo at some stage?
What was it CJH?

Yeah he said something, can't remember what exactly. True04 used to be good for pulling random quotes like that out of his arse. He opposed the boycott in Wexford in the 1950s as well, but can't remember too much about that either

Dev wasn't perfect by any means, but to suggest his was some sort of Catholic autocrat is wrong.

Yeah, it might add some interesting insight into your comparison of Costello and Dev vis a vis Catholic sectarianism.

Cosgrave, Costello and Dev all had much the same position with the Catholic Church. They were all strongly Catholic, who took what the Catholic Church said very seriously, but at the same time were willing to go against the Catholic Church if they strongly disagreed with it and were more then willing to use the Catholic Church for political reasons at various times.[/quote:1uxr7h0n]

Bascially I'd agree with that (though I don't know of any incident of Dev capitulating to the hierarchy a la Costello)

My earlier post was not, as merriweather seemed to think, to suggest that Costello was a Catholic sectarian. It was simply to show that EOD's 'argument', that all was well in liberal secular Ireland under CnaG until nasty Catholic Dev came along and single handedly turned the state into a reactionary priest-ridden hellhole, is so much garbage. Dev, and his FG opponents, were men who fully reflected the prevailing ethos of the times.

[mercymercyme]

Earl, you are an idiot because you are mistaking your hated of FF for objective historical analyisis. You ignore things like the interparty government failing to stand up to the church over the mother and child, Costello and most of his government refusing to enter a church of ireland church for the funeral of the first President of itrland, Lemass's 1960's governments etc. The scales falling off our eyes in 1969 is just BS. How did things change? People still vote FF or FG and the two parties are basically similar. Fine Gael lost more elections than it won, FF is still a populist party and probably caused a recession in the 1980's.
But hey, why don't you go ahead and put that ************************ down in a wikipedia article and see how long it lasts?