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About LinkBacksWait, did Earl say something about the post-1933 O'Duffy period? I thought he was only speaking about pre 1932 and then post 1969.Originally Posted by mercymercyme
Wait, did Earl say something about the post-1933 O'Duffy period? I thought he was only speaking about pre 1932 and then post 1969.
Why am I an idiot? If you disagree with my point then explain why? Simply calling me an idiot doesn't make my point wrong - it jsut highlights you have nothing to counter it with.
It's all very well for us to use what we know today to judge past leaders on. So Cosgrave & Co wanted a Cathlic dictatorship but funny enough Cosgrave resisted attempts to change the Constitution to ban divorce etc as he knew it would affect Protestants and he considered it better that the law was not based on any religious system. While he himself might have been an ultra Catholic he at least didn't impose his belief on others in the way that Dev did.
Also bear in mind Dev it has never been explained how exactly Dev came to be able to afford the Dev family home in Blackrock or where the financing for the Irish press came from.
Fact is between 1922-32 CnG did their honest best to do the right thing - we can all debate if they succeeded but I don't think any fair minded person can seriously attempt to claim they deliberately set out to inflict the economic pain people endured.
However Dev deliberately set out to pursue an economic war he knew we had no hope of winning and in the process he practically destroyed any hope of a fledging industrial base. Anyone from a farming background should ask teir grandparents what Dev's economic war achieved. If the man was serious about things he should have known it was the wrong issue to pick a fight over.
Then having practically put the country back 100 years he went on to stay in power for about 20 years too long which inflicted more damage. Then when Lemass took over it took another 30 years to undo the damage of done by Dev.
And yet now we have a leader who has had more money than all previous governments combined and STILL he lacks the ability to tackle the many social issues we face.
Wasn't it CJH who said Ahern was easily the worst Taoiseach we have ever had as he (CJH) coldn't imagine any other leader of any party making such am ess of the opportunties Ahern has been given.
So the history of Ireland missing still stands:
Got independence, immediately turned on each other, got fed up fighting, fixed the things we broke fighting each other, used all our money up, got involved with the wrong man who went on and on and on and on. Finally got rid of him, took 30 years to undo the damage he did, in our exhaustion at making something of ourselves we didn't notice we handed the keys over to a total moron and we've been trying to get rid of him since but he seems to have some sort of magic hold over us as we know it makes sense to get rid of him as he's a crook but like all crooks we can't admit our stupidity in falling for the same line 3 times.
But given some soundings that the Labour party have copped on you can have a small country with a very successful economy but avoid the inequality and lob-sided dependence on builders - ie Denmark, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Austria, Holland - there is maybe some hope that over the next few years while this government lasts that FG and Lab can develop policies which will use our wealth properly.
Murdering POWs by tying them to landmines and then covering it up does not an honest man make.
Well I wonder how in 80 years people will judge the reaction to 9-11 and say if it was OTT or not OTT enough? In 1922 we had just come out of a very vicious civil war so its impossible for us to judge what happended then in context as we were not there - to our minds a lot of things which happended years ago were odd but were perfectly normal at the time - no doubt when future generations judge our generation they'll find us severely wanting.
On the whole most of those in government from 22-32 did their best and were honest and most of the original FFers were honest and decent too - even recently there were some decent honest people in FF - look at John Wilson - an educated, decent man who did his best - no hint of him getting back handers or Stg or US$ lodgements or not paying back his debts and he died as a respected man. But I think John Wilson was the last of a dying breed in FF.
What rubbish. Ernest Blythe, the Minister for Finance, said that people 'may have to starve' if that was the consequence of the governments hard-right laissez faire economic policies.
It was Dev who improved the lives of the working classes in this country. That is why the working class has traditionally voted FF, and hates FG
You're attempting to justify actions that were and are indefensible. Try reading Niall C. Harrington's book about some of the Free State activities in Co. Kerry. He was an officer in that army and he was sickened by the actions of his colleagues and superiors. He was there.
What rubbish. Ernest Blythe, the Minister for Finance, said that people 'may have to starve' if that was the consequence of the governments hard-right laissez faire economic policies.
It was Dev who improved the lives of the working classes in this country. That is why the working class has traditionally voted FF, and hates FGIs that the same Dev who lined his pockets with public money.
Would that be the same Niall C Harrington who was fired from the Guards for beating a Protestant who had the nerve to chat up a local Catholic girl?
BTW the reason most 'working' class people supported FF was because FF used state funds to ensure council houses were built in areas with FF seats and that FF kept the drip drip of dependence on welfare going so the people who are now going 'aw bless Charlie/Bertie' are the same people who have never contributed a cent to the State but have lived mostly on welfare, in council houses and have had the ability to improve their lot in life effectively removed from them.
Earl, I think you underestimate the current leader. He HAS the ability to tackle our current social issues. He does not have the will. Irish history should record the dramatic swing to the right under Ahern's administration, when an Irish government abandoned social democracy for the first time and enthusiastically embraced free-market, Thatcherite policies. We have a very right wing government who have no intention of tackling social inequality, but rather are intent on cementing it. This is a new and IMO appalling twist in Irish political history.
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