Register to Comment
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 55
Like Tree30Likes
  1. #21
    statsman statsman is online now
    statsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    36,880

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsui2 View Post
    Not on the war of independence - leastways a remarkable number of the OOP ones that I read, even ones by people who'd known interesting times, were appallingly dull. That's what made the Dalton one stand out. That and (in an entirely different way) one I mentioned on here before, the autobiography of Ormonde Winter, the British spymaster - that's worthy of something out of John Le Carré: never read a book where I spent so much time thinking: "Now when the old bugger says this, what is it that he wants the reader to believe, and why does he want them to believe it?" Pure poison!
    The most likely thing is that the 'estate', probably family, don't want to be reminded of what went on, I suppose.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #22
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
    Mitsui2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    23,745

    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    The most likely thing is that the 'estate', probably family, don't want to be reminded of what went on, I suppose.
    That had struck me. Bit of a vain hope, though, when they're the Daltons.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #23
    statsman statsman is online now
    statsman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    36,880

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsui2 View Post
    That had struck me. Bit of a vain hope, though, when they're the Daltons.
    Deed poll?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #24
    Mitsui2 Mitsui2 is offline
    Mitsui2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    23,745

    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Deed poll?
    Seems a bit drastic - there's no big scandal or anything (apart from that bullsh1t myth about Emmett). No idea what became of the family - probably several P.ie posters who keep track of that sort of thing.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #25
    JohnD66 JohnD66 is offline

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,242

    Charlie Dalton is an under-researched character. Pressed into intelligence work for Collins at just 16, involved in planning and killing on Bloody Sunday aged 17, setting up an escape of prisoners at Mountjoy the following year The shooting end of which was carried out by his brother Emmet. Very nearly being arrested and murdred by the Igoe gang

    In the truce, by all accounts he was cracking up, drinking heavily and behaving erratically. Not too surpruising given what he'd already witnessed. Much more surprising is that he was made deputy head of National Army Intelligence in the Civil war, based in Wellington barracks, Dublin, where his unit routinely tortured and killed republican prisoners - including three teenaged members of the Fianna.

    He was removed from his post in early 1923 and he and his ex-boss Liam Toibin (who had also got the boot from Army Intel) were the main conspirators in the Army mutiny of 1924 and were eventually arrested. Joe McGrath, another fromer IRA and National Army veteran set him up later with a job in the Sweepstakes, but by all accounts he never recovered mentally from 1919-24.

    Only a fraction of which story Dalton included in 'With the Dublin Brigade'. Both a perpetrator of revolutionary (and counter revolutionary violence, also in a way, a victim and finally, also benificiary from the change of regime.

    He's mentioned in some articles here
    http://www.theirishstory.com/2011/05...irish-history/
    http://www.theirishstory.com/2010/06...ish-civil-war/
    http://www.theirishstory.com/2010/05...ish-civil-war/
    Last edited by JohnD66; 11th July 2012 at 10:07 PM.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #26
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #27
    Little_Korean Little_Korean is offline
    Little_Korean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    4,275

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsui2 View Post
    Charlie Dalton (Emmett's brother) writes a good deal about the Igoe gang in his autobiography With The Dublin Brigade. It's really criminal that this book isn't better known, as it's a fascinating read, but for some reason it seems never to have been republished after the first edition in 1929.
    I'm a little puzzled as to why it's not better known - I only happened to come across a copy, quite by chance, and my first thought when reading the title was whether this was some sort of memoir about the Dublin fire brigade, and my next thought when seeing the author was whether he was any relation to Emmet Dalton.

    Was glancing through the history shelves in Easons in Dublin airport and the three WoT memoirs on sale there were Tom Barry, Dan Breen and Ernie O'Malley - those seem to be the big three in terms of WoT guys still in print, with others getting a look-in at best. Why those three should dominate the shelves is a question onto itself - Dalton's writing style certainly isn't inferior (nor is Michael Brennan's, another WoT favourite of mine whose book is also hard to get hold of). Did his book for some reason not sell well in 1929, compared to the bestsellers O'Malley, Breen and Barry were, and so publishers haven't bothered picking it up since? Did the associations with FS violence count against him?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #28
    JohnD66 JohnD66 is offline

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    1,242

    WoI memoirs that don't get the recognition they deserve;

    Mossie Hartnett's Victory and Woe - a really excellent and thoughtful book.

    Liam Deasy's Towards Ireland Free, again very honest.

    Any more folks?

    Incidentally Ernest Blythe' witness statement at the BMH is astonishing in its honesty. At over 100 pages it's really like a memoir and could almost be published int its own right.

    From how he got involved with the IRB - Sean O'Casey recruited him. A fascinating tour of the country in 1915 on behalf of the IRB describing the separatist movement in different areas. To conditions in prison during the flu epidemic of 1918. To how Dail cabinet meetings operated during the WoI - Collins doesn't come out especially well, surprisingly, he seems an impatient bully. Blythe seems to have admired Dev more before the Treaty split.

    Towards the end especially he puts the boot into civil war grievances in a big way. No forgive and forget for him and no punches pulled. Some hair raising stuff on how the Squad was used to terrorise pro-Treaty TDs into not resigning due to IRA intimidation. No regrets over the executions on the FS side and re the Kenmare incident (the assault on two women for which Kevin O'Higgins forced Paddy Daly's resignation from the Army), I quote, 'the two tarts got what they deserved'.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #29
    shutuplaura shutuplaura is offline
    shutuplaura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    2,764

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD66 View Post
    WoI memoirs that don't get the recognition they deserve;

    Mossie Hartnett's Victory and Woe - a really excellent and thoughtful book.

    Liam Deasy's Towards Ireland Free, again very honest.

    Any more folks?

    Incidentally Ernest Blythe' witness statement at the BMH is astonishing in its honesty. At over 100 pages it's really like a memoir and could almost be published int its own right.

    From how he got involved with the IRB - Sean O'Casey recruited him. A fascinating tour of the country in 1915 on behalf of the IRB describing the separatist movement in different areas. To conditions in prison during the flu epidemic of 1918. To how Dail cabinet meetings operated during the WoI - Collins doesn't come out especially well, surprisingly, he seems an impatient bully. Blythe seems to have admired Dev more before the Treaty split.

    Towards the end especially he puts the boot into civil war grievances in a big way. No forgive and forget for him and no punches pulled. Some hair raising stuff on how the Squad was used to terrorise pro-Treaty TDs into not resigning due to IRA intimidation. No regrets over the executions on the FS side and re the Kenmare incident (the assault on two women for which Kevin O'Higgins forced Paddy Daly's resignation from the Army), I quote, 'the two tarts got what they deserved'.
    Blythe's Witness statement is very interesting. His impression of the cabinet in the early days of the Civil War - really unable to leave government buildings and forced to sleep in their offices is striking. I can see how that situation coloured their thinking about the war. And he absolved the army of any blame for their summary executions too if I remember correctly. The best memoirs are Deasy's and O'Malley's. I've really only read a few more, all were quite poor. Breen's being a notable example. His witness statement is much better.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #30
    freewillie freewillie is offline

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,883

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramon Mercadar View Post
    Is he in FG?
    There used be a pub in Ballybrack, may still be there., The Igo Inn. Any connection?
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment