Shatter: WW2 neutrality was 'moral bankruptcy'

[borntorum]

In the course of a speech on proposals to pardon Irish soldiers who deserted the Defence Forces to fight with the British army in the Second World War, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter made the following observations:

He added that in the 1930s practically all visa requests from German Jews were refused by the Irish authorities.
“This position was maintained from 1939 to 1945 and we should no longer be in denial that, in the context of the Holocaust, Irish neutrality was a principle of moral bankruptcy.
“This moral bankruptcy was compounded by the then Irish government who, after the war, only allowed an indefensibly small number who survived the concentration camps to settle permanently in Ireland . . . and also by the visit of President de Valera to then German ambassador Edouard Hempel in 1945 to express his condolences on the death of Hitler. At a time when neutrality should have ceased to be an issue the government . . . utterly lost its moral compass,” said Mr Shatter.

I agree that our position of neutrality in WW2 was certainly morally disingenuous, at the least. and that a general position of neutrality on foreign matters is cowardly and hypocritical. However, I also think that neutrality in WW2 was probably the only possible pragmatic position to take, given the divisions in the country and the real possibility of Civil War if de Valera had openly supported the Allies (we know of course that he gave substantial support to the UK and US behind the scenes).

However, I don't recall an Irish government minister ever before describing neutrality as 'morally bankrupt'. I know it comes with the clarifying clause "in the context of the Holocaust", but a country is either neutral or it is not. We couldn't have been openly hostile towards the Germans' treatment of the Jews (and in any event the real horrors of the Holocaust were not known during the War) while at the same time claiming that otherwise we were remaining neutral between the two sides.

It's an interesting statement for Shatter to make. Is it representative of FG thinking?

Pardon on way for Irish who fought, says Shatter - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 25, 2012

[Hooch]

It's an interesting statement for Shatter to make. Is it representative of FG thinking?

It more than likely strikes a stronger chord with Shatter on account of his religion.

I agree with him 100%, Dev offering his sympathies for the death of Hitler was an absolute disgrace.

[Sync]

I agree that our position of neutrality in WW2 was certainly morally disingenuous, at the least. and that a general position of neutrality on foreign matters is cowardly and hypocritical. However, I also think that neutrality in WW2 was probably the only possible pragmatic position to take, given the divisions in the country and the real possibility of Civil War if de Valera had openly supported the Allies (we know of course that he gave substantial support to the UK and US behind the scenes).

I'd agree with the above. Aside from the fact that for a large part of the war it looked like the Germans would win until they stuffed it all up, what truck would Ireland have with the UK and France vs Italy and Germany? If they'd known the extent of the genocide and if the US had been engaged from the start, then I don't think we'd have stayed neutral. Given the facts as they were then though, I still think the right call was made with the information available.

[kerdasi amaq]

Most of the history surrounding the Second World War is bogus; especially any historical account which tends to justify the actions of the Allies.

He added that in the 1930s practically all visa requests from German Jews were refused by the Irish authorities.

Did it ever occur to Alan Shatter that de Valera could have been a secret Zionist and was using his office to help promote the Zionist agenda?

[Third Recount]

"and in any event the real horrors of the Holocaust were not known during the War"


The facts do not support this statement. While Irleand may not have been in a position to supply military strenght access to ports would have been a great support for the Allied Naval forces defending the Atlantic convoys of merchant shipping including ships bringing gooods to Ireland.
Instead we had the I.R.A. running of to Berlin looking for Nazi support and the Dept of Justice refusing visas to Jews wanting to get out of Naxi controlled Europe

[FrankSpeaks]

Most of the history surrounding the Second World War is bogus; especially any historical account which tends to justify the actions of the Allies.



Did it ever occur to Alan Shatter that de Valera could have been a secret Zionist and was using his office to help promote the Zionist agenda?

Troll.

[FrankSpeaks]

Far play to Alan for calling a spade a spade.

[Marvar88]

In the course of a speech on proposals to pardon Irish soldiers who deserted the Defence Forces to fight with the British army in the Second World War, Minister for Justice Alan Shatter made the following observations:



I agree that our position of neutrality in WW2 was certainly morally disingenuous, at the least. and that a general position of neutrality on foreign matters is cowardly and hypocritical. However, I also think that neutrality in WW2 was probably the only possible pragmatic position to take, given the divisions in the country and the real possibility of Civil War if de Valera had openly supported the Allies (we know of course that he gave substantial support to the UK and US behind the scenes).

However, I don't recall an Irish government minister ever before describing neutrality as 'morally bankrupt'. I know it comes with the clarifying clause "in the context of the Holocaust", but a country is either neutral or it is not. We couldn't have been openly hostile towards the Germans' treatment of the Jews (and in any event the real horrors of the Holocaust were not known during the War) while at the same time claiming that otherwise we were remaining neutral between the two sides.

It's an interesting statement for Shatter to make. Is it representative of FG thinking?

Pardon on way for Irish who fought, says Shatter - The Irish Times - Wed, Jan 25, 2012

Fair play to Shatter.

This is something I firmly believe. Our behaviour during World War 2 is nothing to be proud of. No doubt the Cavalry will be on soon hammering him and anyone who agrees with him, but at least it's reassuring to have one of the State's most prominent politicians saying this openly.

[White Horse]

How anyone could be "neutral" towards Nazism is beyond me.

[Aindriu]

I agree with him 100%.