Originally Posted by gerhard dengler

Germany had a plan. A plan subject to our setting aside our neutrality and inviting the germans to invade here.

The fact that we didn't set aside our neutrality, which Shatter thinks is wrong, the jew here would have been gathered up, shipped to Europe and ended up in a chimney.

You still think Shatter is correct?





The nazi's documented the number of jews everywhere. That's what they did. If I recall they had numbers for the USA too - even though they weren't at war with the USA in July 1941.

Well perhaps you can provide a link to their plans for US Jews, becuase I'm looking at a copy of the Wannsee conference details noting the number of Jews to be included in the final solution and it doesn't mention America. Now it's in German and it has all the countries in Europe and the USSR as well as the Ukraine and Turkey. No mention of America.

no, no. Germany had a plan to invade ireland. Nothing to do with Ireland setting aside our nutrality. That idea only came from hitler after he was presented with the plan to invade ireland and how to do it. The plan was just put on the back burner because germany had other plans that were more immenent - The Battle of Britain and its plans for Russia, as well as the other countries it was planning on taking over or had just taken over at that time in 1940 (France etc).

Germany had plans for ireland's Jews. ireland staying neutral wasn't going to save them. What saved them was the German defeat at the hands of the Allies

Originally Posted by Munnkeyman

You referenced Irving, he clearly states that the Nazis had plans regarding Ireland.

So what you are now saying is that an assault on Ireland, which Operation Green called for, was only going to be made if we invited them and that if they did come here it wasn't part of any plan because
it was only a "feint", sorry an invitation based "feint".

Jaysus, you couldn't invent your lunacy.

I'm only telling you what Operation Green states, chimp.

Read it again and try to concentrate on d'underlined bits, ok?

""..a landing in Ireland can be attempted only if Ireland requests help. For the present our envoy [assumed to be Dr. Eduard Hempel of the German Legation] must ascertain whether De Valera desires support and whether he wishes to have his military equipment supplemented by captured British war material (guns and ammunition), which could be sent to him in independent ships. Ireland is important to the Commander in Chief, Air, [Göring] as his base for attacks on the north-west ports of Britain, although weather conditions must be investigated. The occupation of Ireland might lead to the end of the war"

"The estimation of Grand Admiral Erich Raeder of the Naval High Command was lukewarm, just as it had been for Sea Lion.[8] His concern was German naval strength and resupply of any landed troops:

"To a defending force, cut off and left to its own devices, the topography of the country [Ireland] does not afford us much protection... without supplies and reinforcements they would soon feel the increasing pressure of British expeditionary force brought over under the protection of British naval power; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...Ireland)sooner or later our own troops would face a situation similar to Namsos or Dunkirk."[9]
In this sense Green can be seen as a worst case scenario for the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW). While Kaupitsch was to continue planning and training for Sea Lion/Green he seems to have shelved preparations in late 1940 and not returned to them. From his point of view Green had become a feint. This view is reinforced by examining one of the warnings offered to participating German forces in the plan"
Operation Green (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You and your mendacious ways

Originally Posted by Ifor Bach

Hitler to Dev ......

I hate to be a bother, but would you mind awfully if I put just one or two divisions and perhaps an aircraft or two in the Free State? I mean I would hate to come without an explicit invitation. That would be such terribly bad form. And by the way, would it be too much trouble for you to compile a little list of all Jewish gentlemen resident in your jurisdiction. Don't worry, of course we would never undertake preciptate action without your full permission etc .....

He might also have added. We will hand over all those ex British Service people who committed war crimes in your Jurisdiction during the recent War of Independence, including those who tortured prisoners and civilians or were involved in summary executions contrary to international law. The SS and the Crown Forces two sides of one coin.

Originally Posted by LamportsEdge

Excuse me- when you say 'our' neutrality (with an 'e') I have to ask.... are you not an American poster? Perhaps if you could confirm whether you are the poster who mentioned being an American with a quarter Native American lineage? Apologies if I have mistaken you for someone else but I had an understanding you weren't Irish?

No offence intended by the way but could you clarify?

No I'm not an American. You must have me mixed up with someone else......even if my spelling is not the best oops

Originally Posted by gerhard dengler

I'm not surprised that Germany would document the number of jews in all countries. They were determined to eradicate them. So to that end their documenting numbers makes sense (for them)

If we had set aside our neutrality as Shatter suggests Germany could and would have invaded here and for sure every jew would have been packed off to Europe.

I'm surprised that any citizen would advocate our setting aside our neutrality.

As I said before, it did not make sense for Ireland to join the war before 1942 - we would have been a addition to the British defence perimeter they could not afford.

However, it would have made perfect sense to join the Allies (for example) in 1944 (especially after D-Day). The Germans had no capacity at that time to retaliate against us.

Many of the Allies only declared war on Germany in 1944 or 1945 - Turkey is one example. Why not Ireland?

Originally Posted by kerdasi amaq

Most of the history surrounding the Second World War is bogus; especially any historical account which tends to justify the actions of the Allies.



Did it ever occur to Alan Shatter that de Valera could have been a secret Zionist and was using his office to help promote the Zionist agenda?

Has it ever occured to yourself that the Roman Catholic church knew exactly the level of genocide that was being committed and word may have been spread to their arch-catholic supporters ...hmm..now who was in government in Ireland at the time who was an extreme conservative catholic right-winger?

Originally Posted by thetruthsback

He might also have added. We will hand over all those ex British Service people who committed war crimes in your Jurisdiction during the recent War of Independence, including those who tortured prisoners and civilians or were involved in summary executions contrary to international law. The SS and the Crown Forces two sides of one coin.

Some Irish people are beyond parody.

Originally Posted by gerhard dengler

I'm only telling you what Operation Green states, chimp.

Read it again and try to concentrate on d'underlined bits, ok?

""..a landing in Ireland can be attempted only if Ireland requests help. For the present our envoy [assumed to be Dr. Eduard Hempel of the German Legation] must ascertain whether De Valera desires support and whether he wishes to have his military equipment supplemented by captured British war material (guns and ammunition), which could be sent to him in independent ships. Ireland is important to the Commander in Chief, Air, [Göring] as his base for attacks on the north-west ports of Britain, although weather conditions must be investigated. The occupation of Ireland might lead to the end of the war"

"The estimation of Grand Admiral Erich Raeder of the Naval High Command was lukewarm, just as it had been for Sea Lion.[8] His concern was German naval strength and resupply of any landed troops:

"To a defending force, cut off and left to its own devices, the topography of the country [Ireland] does not afford us much protection... without supplies and reinforcements they would soon feel the increasing pressure of British expeditionary force brought over under the protection of British naval power; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operati...Ireland)sooner or later our own troops would face a situation similar to Namsos or Dunkirk."[9]
In this sense Green can be seen as a worst case scenario for the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW). While Kaupitsch was to continue planning and training for Sea Lion/Green he seems to have shelved preparations in late 1940 and not returned to them. From his point of view Green had become a feint. This view is reinforced by examining one of the warnings offered to participating German forces in the plan"
Operation Green (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You and your mendacious ways

Ah, wikipedia ....

I wonder why, If Germany would only have invaded Ireland at the invitation of the Irish Government, the Irish government made detailed plans for co-operation with the British if and when the Germans invaded without their permission?

Having considered this subject for quite some time now I take heart from one salient piece of knowledge. At least Mr Shatter isn't the Minister responsible for Foreign Affairs.

We really don't at this stage need someone at that portfolio who is labouring under the remarkable impression that international relations are settled by discussion of 'morality'.

I'm given to understand it was once raised as a possibility at the UK Foreign Office and the person responsible did rather well as second assistant attache in Benin for the subsequent three decades.

Originally Posted by gerhard dengler

I'm only telling you what Operation Green states, chimp.

Read it again and try to concentrate on d'underlined bits, ok?

""..a landing in Ireland can be attempted only if Ireland requests help. For the present our envoy [assumed to be Dr. Eduard Hempel of the German Legation] must ascertain whether De Valera desires support and whether he wishes to have his military equipment supplemented by captured British war material (guns and ammunition), which could be sent to him in independent ships. Ireland is important to the Commander in Chief, Air, [Göring] as his base for attacks on the north-west ports of Britain, although weather conditions must be investigated. The occupation of Ireland might lead to the end of the war"

"The estimation of Grand Admiral Erich Raeder of the Naval High Command was lukewarm, just as it had been for Sea Lion.[8] His concern was German naval strength and resupply of any landed troops:

"To a defending force, cut off and left to its own devices, the topography of the country [Ireland] does not afford us much protection... without supplies and reinforcements they would soon feel the increasing pressure of British expeditionary force brought over under the protection of British naval power; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Green_(Ireland)sooner or later our own troops would face a situation similar to Namsos or Dunkirk."[9]
In this sense Green can be seen as a worst case scenario for the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW). While Kaupitsch was to continue planning and training for Sea Lion/Green he seems to have shelved preparations in late 1940 and not returned to them. From his point of view Green had become a feint. This view is reinforced by examining one of the warnings offered to participating German forces in the plan"
Operation Green (Ireland) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You and your mendacious ways

Are you using Wikipedia as the basis for your argument? You couldn't make this guy up.

Here you forgot to quote this piece which precedes your quote -

Hitler's views

Despite the propaganda, Green was an actual military plan that was given real consideration. Although Hitler had postponed Sea Lion on 17 September 1940, he took up a personal interest again on 3 December 1940 after hearing of radio reports alluding to a British invasion of Ireland. Hitler then ordered Raeder's naval staff to investigate the feasibility of occupying Ireland to pre-empt any British attempt.However, at the time Hitler seemed already convinced that any landing should be by invitation only:

If Operation Sea Lion was launched Operation Green would have been launched, as it was a part of the plan.


An invitation-only invasion plan, you really couldn't make that shyte up.