Shatter: WW2 neutrality was 'moral bankruptcy'

[L'Chaim]

Indeed, something which is only compounded, in my opinion, by supporters of Israel branding anyone who dares criticise Israeli terror as 'anti-semitic'. It is not in the interests of integrity, nor actually in their interests, to carry on like that.

I have never heard a mere critic of Israel being called antisemitic. Nor have I ever heard mere criticism of Israel described as antisemitism. Some of the harshest critics of Israel's government and Israeli policies are Israelis and some are even Jews in the Israeli Knesset. But there are certain kinds of criticism that are antisemitic even if the word Jew is never mentioned. Things like the calls for the destruction of Israel, the deniel of the Jewish people's right to self-determination, blaming Israel (or jews) for all the world's evils, Nazifying Israel, holocaust denial, to single out Israel for condemnation in the international arena, calling for boycotts of countries or businesses trading with Israel. All these would be either antisemitism or ideas based in antisemitism. The problem is, many people lump antisemitic acts in with mere criticism of Israel in order to try and diminish antisemitism.....and it's usually antisemites who do it.

But then there are those who make antisemitic comments but don't realise it or don't mean to. These people would not really be antisemitic. On here i tend to give the benefit of the doubt in most cases.

[Roisin3]

Emphasis ? Suggestion as an alternative.

Anti-semitism was common in Ireland. As it was in the UK. That is not to say it was as virulent or malevolent as seen on mainland Europe.

Did the Irish magically become pro-semitic when they went to live in London?

Day the East End said 'No pasaran' to Blackshirts


They built barricades from paving stones, timber and overturned lorries. Women threw the contents of chamber pots on to the heads of policemen and children hurled marbles under their horses and burst bags of pepper in front of their noses.
Next Wednesday marks the 70th anniversary of the day that Jews, communists, trade unionists, Labour party members, Irish Catholic dockers and the people of the East End of London united in defiance of Sir Oswald Mosley's British Union of Fascists and refused to let them march through their streets.

Shouting the Spanish civil war slogan "No pasaran" - "They shall not pass" - more than 300,000 people turned back an army of Blackshirts. Their victory over racism and anti-Semitism on Sunday October 4 1936 became known as the Battle of Cable Street and encapsulated the British fight against a fascism that was stomping across Europe.

Mosley planned to send columns of thousands of goose-stepping men throughout the impoverished East End dressed in uniforms that mimicked those of Hitler's Nazis. His target was the large Jewish community.

The Jewish Board of Deputies advised Jews to stay away. The Jewish Chronicle warned: "Jews are urgently warned to keep away from the route of the Blackshirt march and from their meetings.

"Jews who, however innocently, become involved in any possible disorders will be actively helping anti-Semitism and Jew-baiting. Unless you want to help the Jew baiters, keep away."

The Jews did not keep away. Professor Bill Fishman, now 89, who was 15 on the day, was at Gardner's Corner in Aldgate, the entrance to the East End. "There was masses of marching people. Young people, old people, all shouting 'No Pasaran' and 'One two three four five - we want Mosley, dead or alive'," he said. "It was like a massive army gathering, coming from all the side streets. Mosley was supposed to arrive at lunchtime but the hours were passing and he hadn't come. Between 3pm and 3.30 we could see a big army of Blackshirts marching towards the confluence of Commercial Road and Whitechapel Road.

Marbles

"I pushed myself forward and because I was 6ft I could see Mosley. They were surrounded by an even greater army of police. There was to be this great advance of the police force to get the fascists through. Suddenly, the horses' hooves were flying and the horses were falling down because the young kids were throwing marbles."

Thousands of policemen were sandwiched between the Blackshirts and the anti-fascists. The latter were well organised and through a mole learned that the chief of police had told Mosley that his passage into the East End could be made through Cable Street.

"I heard this loudspeaker say 'They are going to Cable Street'," said Prof Fishman. "Suddenly a barricade was erected there and they put an old lorry in the middle of the road and old mattresses. The people up the top of the flats, mainly Irish Catholic women, were throwing rubbish on to the police. We were all side by side. I was moved to tears to see bearded Jews and Irish Catholic dockers standing up to stop Mosley. I shall never forget that as long as I live, how working-class people could get together to oppose the evil of racism."

Max Levitas, now 91, was a message runner and had already been fined £10 in court for his anti-Mosley activities. Two years before Cable Street, the BUF had called a meeting in Hyde Park and in protest Mr Levitas whitewashed Nelson's column, calling people to the park to drown out the fascists. Mr Levitas went on to become a Communist councillor in Stepney.

"I feel proud that I played a major part in stopping Mosley. When we heard that the march was disbanded, there was a hue and cry and the flags were going wild. They did not pass. The chief of police decided that if the march had taken place there would be death on the road - and there would have been," he said.

"It was a victory for ordinary people against racism and anti-Semitism and it should be instilled in the minds of people today. The Battle of Cable Street is a history lesson for us all. People as people must get together and stop racism and anti-Semitism so people can lead an ordinary life and develop their own ideas and religions."

Beatty Orwell, 89, was scared and excited. "People were fighting and a friend of mine was thrown through a plate glass window."

Day the East End said 'No pasaran' to Blackshirts | UK news | The Guardian

[former wesleyan]

Did the Irish magically become pro-semitic when they went to live in London?





Day the East End said 'No pasaran' to Blackshirts | UK news | The Guardian

Irish Catholic women throwing rubbish down from flats onto Peelers isn't indicative of very much really.

[Roisin3]

Irish Catholic women throwing rubbish down from flats onto Peelers isn't indicative of very much really.

That may be your own prejudice speaking.

And perhaps you missed the rest of Prof Fishman's comment:

I was moved to tears to see bearded Jews and Irish Catholic dockers standing up to stop Mosley. I shall never forget that as long as I live,

Care to provide a glib (prejudiced or non-prejudiced, your choice) remark on that?

[Cruimh]

Did the Irish magically become pro-semitic when they went to live in London?

Since when did "common" mean universal?

Your defensiveness makes my point.

[Cruimh]

I fully agree with that. It is worth remembering that only one member of the Dail, James Dillon, was opposed. After all it was only nineteen years since the War of Independence. There WAS a traditional type of anti-semitism in Ireland but not remotely of the virulence of the race-based Nazi variety.Younger posters may not be aware that an earlier generation had resentments based on their dealings with Jewish money lenders.e.g One well-known money-lender used to wait outside the Customs House on pay days to collect the money junior customs officials owed him.It is common to resent lenders even though it was your decision to borrow, in extremis.This can then morph into a general low-level prejudice against an entire community.

It was Briscoe who in 1929 brought forward an anti-moneylending bill in Dáil that became law in 1933 - to try and distance Jews

[Racist]

It was Briscoe who in 1929 brought forward an anti-moneylending bill in Dáil that became law in 1933 - to try and distance Jews

You obviously have a link to back up this claim.

[walrusgumble]

You obviously have a link to back up this claim.

Dáíl Records would be a start

During the Haughey era, when Briscoe Junior voted against Haughey, Briscoe , who owed alot to Haughey, was reported to have been told that it was a pitty his family were not got at during WW2. Point being , Briscoe would have had to put up with alot of nonsense and the usual prejudices.

[McDave]

Emphasis ? Suggestion as an alternative.

Anti-semitism was common in Ireland. As it was in the UK. That is not to say it was as virulent or malevolent as seen on mainland Europe.

That still doesn't help demonstrate that our decision to remain neutral was informed to any degree by an animus against Jews.

[Racist]

Dáíl Records would be a start

During the Haughey era, when Briscoe Junior voted against Haughey, Briscoe , who owed alot to Haughey, was reported to have been told that it was a pitty his family were not got at during WW2. Point being , Briscoe would have had to put up with alot of nonsense and the usual prejudices.

Cruimh makes a specific allegation as to why the bill was brought in. Bearing in mind that there was the wall street crash of 1929 and the depression that followed in America, and it's knock on effect on Europe.
I had previously read some of the Dail records and saw nothing to support his claim. I would suggest his comments are from a predigest point of view. So I would like him to produce this evidence.