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  1. #81
    between the bridges between the bridges is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanie Lemass View Post
    There were 18.9 million people of the eligable age to join the HJ when the Pope did. 18.7 million of them did. Now, think about that. You reckon they were all enthusiasts? Do you understand anything about totalitarianism?
    so i shouldn't judge a whole orginasition on the basis of some/one bad apple/s?

    as for 'totalitarianism' i am unionist don't you know we wrote the book..
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  2. #82
    LongLiberal LongLiberal is offline

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  3. #83
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by LongLiberal View Post
    Simply, no.
    There are no parallels in this country. One aspect is talking about 1930's Germany and the other is 21st century Ireland. You seem to be trying to push some sort of idea that the Catholic Church were in opposition to Hitlers Nazi regime, which is simply laughable.
    Firstly, the Vatican kept very very quiet during the Holocaust, why is that?

    Hitler himself was a Roman Catholic and often throughout Mein Kampf spoke about "doing god's work". He was baptised and never renounced his baptism. All soldiers in the SS would place three fingers in their belt to signify the Holy Trinity.
    Also, and most significantly the Cardinal Arch-Bishop of Munich, Adolf Bertram, held a special mass in 1939, when Hitler escaped assassination, to celebrate "the fortunate release of the Fuhrer". ........

    .
    I'm not sure why it is necessary to keep on refuting this nonsense. It has been done before - by myself and others - on the Politics.ie website and the book "Hitler's Table Talk" was first published in 1953. However here it is again.

    Extracts from "Hitler's Secret Conversations" (aka "Hitler's Table Talk") regarding Christianity

    The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, "Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944", which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

    All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

    Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
    National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

    10th October, 1941, midday:
    Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

    14th October, 1941, midday:
    The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

    19th October, 1941, night:
    The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

    21st October, 1941, midday:
    Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

    13th December, 1941, midnight:
    Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

    14th December, 1941, midday:
    Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

    9th April, 1942, dinner:
    There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

    27th February, 1942, midday:
    It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

    Hitler was in fact, a Social Darwinist who believed in an impersonal Providence which gives victory to the strong by using a process of natural selection to ensure the survival of the fittest. (He objected to Christianity because he saw it as "a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature ..... the systematic cultivation of the human failure".)
    Last edited by Kilbarry1; 8th January 2012 at 06:52 PM.
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  4. #84
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Child Killing Allegations by Anti-Clerics: Nazis and "Lliberals"

    HOWEVER the subject of this thread is "Nazis, the Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

    It is a fact that the Nazis launched a campaign against the Catholic Church that involved invented or grossly exaggerated allegations of child sexual abuse. it is also a fact that the Nazis did the same in relation to the Jews - and in their case included allegations that Christian children were murdered by Jews.

    In his book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", William Shirer has this to say about Hitler's favourite anti-Semite Julius Streicher:
    "A famous fornicator he made his fame and fortune as a blindly fanatical anti-Semite. His notorious weekly Der Stuermer thrived on lurid tales of Jewish sexual crimes and Jewish "ritual murders"; its obscenity was nauseating even to many Nazis".

    You will note that not all Nazis were enthusiastic about Herr Streicher and his allegations.

    The following is an extract from my own website:

    This website is about false allegations of child abuse - mainly those directed at the Catholic Church in Ireland. I do not dispute that there are real cases of abuse of children by clerics but my contention is that these have been used as an excuse to launch a witch-hunt. This witch-hunt has now spread to every part of our society so that every teacher, doctor, nurse, social worker etc has to take specific precautions to guard against becoming the target of a false accusation. ........

    "Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child-Killing Allegations"
    Christian Brothers, Child Killing Allegations, Letter to Sunday Tribune
    is a summary of several allegations that the Christian Brothers were responsible for killing children in their care. (We are not talking about negligence here.) The allegations were made in a 4 to 5 year period beginning in 1999 (i.e. just after the broadcast of Mary Raftery's "States of Fear" series by the national broadcast company RTE in April/May of that year). Prior to the broadcast of "States of Fear", there was just one allegation of that type and it was directed at the Sisters of Mercy. I have discussed this in the essay "Sister Xavieria and "Child Killing" in Goldenbridge".
    Sister Xavieria, Sisters of Mercy, 'Child Killing' in Goldenbridge
    (This allegation followed RTE's broadcast of Louis Lentin's documentary "Dear Daughter" in February 1996 which made serious allegations against the Sisters of Mercy in Goldenbridge residential school.)


    The above is more relevant to the subject of this thread than general claims that "Hitler was a Catholic" etc Also the people who made these false claims seem to have got away with it, whereas even some Nazis were nauseated by Julius Streicher.
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  5. #85
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Child Killing Allegations by Anti-Clerics: Nazis and "Lliberals"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    .........

    The following is an extract from my own website:

    This website is about false allegations of child abuse - mainly those directed at the Catholic Church in Ireland. I do not dispute that there are real cases of abuse of children by clerics but my contention is that these have been used as an excuse to launch a witch-hunt. This witch-hunt has now spread to every part of our society so that every teacher, doctor, nurse, social worker etc has to take specific precautions to guard against becoming the target of a false accusation. ........

    "Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child-Killing Allegations"
    Christian Brothers, Child Killing Allegations, Letter to Sunday Tribune
    is a summary of several allegations that the Christian Brothers were responsible for killing children in their care. (We are not talking about negligence here.) The allegations were made in a 4 to 5 year period beginning in 1999 (i.e. just after the broadcast of Mary Raftery's "States of Fear" series by the national broadcast company RTE in April/May of that year). Prior to the broadcast of "States of Fear", there was just one allegation of that type and it was directed at the Sisters of Mercy. I have discussed this in the essay "Sister Xavieria and "Child Killing" in Goldenbridge".
    Sister Xavieria, Sisters of Mercy, 'Child Killing' in Goldenbridge
    (This allegation followed RTE's broadcast of Louis Lentin's documentary "Dear Daughter" in February 1996 which made serious allegations against the Sisters of Mercy in Goldenbridge residential school.)
    ........
    I'm heading off now BUT
    Louis Lentin is Jewish. A better example of "biting off your nose to spite your face" would be almost impossible to find!
    Louis Lentin, Christine Buckley, Gerry Kelly, False Allegations against Sisters of Mercy and Christian Brothers
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  6. #86
    TommyO'Brien TommyO'Brien is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    I'm heading off now
    Don't rush back.
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  7. #87
    LongLiberal LongLiberal is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    I'm not sure why it is necessary to keep on refuting this nonsense. It has been done before - by myself and others - on the Politics.ie website and the book "Hitler's Table Talk" was first published in 1953. However here it is again.

    Extracts from "Hitler's Secret Conversations" (aka "Hitler's Table Talk") regarding Christianity

    The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, "Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944", which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

    All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

    Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
    National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

    10th October, 1941, midday:
    Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

    14th October, 1941, midday:
    The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

    19th October, 1941, night:
    The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

    21st October, 1941, midday:
    Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

    13th December, 1941, midnight:
    Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

    14th December, 1941, midday:
    Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

    9th April, 1942, dinner:
    There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

    27th February, 1942, midday:
    It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

    Hitler was in fact, a Social Darwinist who believed in an impersonal Providence which gives victory to the strong by using a process of natural selection to ensure the survival of the fittest. (He objected to Christianity because he saw it as "a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature ..... the systematic cultivation of the human failure".)

    I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.

    - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1



    Once again the songs of the fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children.

    - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1


    Even today I am not ashamed to say that, overpowered by stormy enthusiasm, I fell down on my knees and thanked Heaven from an overflowing heart for granting me the good fortune of being permitted to live at this time.

    - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 5


    What we have to fight for is the necessary security for the existence and increase of our race and people, the subsistence of its children and the maintenance of our racial stock unmixed, the freedom and independence of the Fatherland; so that our people may be enabled to fulfill the mission assigned to it by the Creator.

    - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 8



    Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise.

    - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1



    In short, the results of miscegenation are always the following: (a) The level of the superior race becomes lowered; (b) physical and mental degeneration sets in, thus leading slowly but steadily towards a progressive drying up of the vital sap. The act which brings about such a development is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator. And as a sin this act will be avenged.

    - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 11




    In a public address in Munich -

    "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."



    Stuttgart address February 15th 1933 -

    "Today they say that Christianity is in danger, that the Catholic faith is threatened. My reply to them is: for the time being, Christians and not international atheists are now standing at Germany’s fore. I am not merely talking about Christianity; I confess that I will never ally myself with the parties which aim to destroy Christianity"
    Last edited by LongLiberal; 8th January 2012 at 08:42 PM.
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  8. #88
    LongLiberal LongLiberal is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilbarry1 View Post
    HOWEVER the subject of this thread is "Nazis, the Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

    It is a fact that the Nazis launched a campaign against the Catholic Church that involved invented or grossly exaggerated allegations of child sexual abuse. it is also a fact that the Nazis did the same in relation to the Jews - and in their case included allegations that Christian children were murdered by Jews.

    In his book "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich", William Shirer has this to say about Hitler's favourite anti-Semite Julius Streicher:
    "A famous fornicator he made his fame and fortune as a blindly fanatical anti-Semite. His notorious weekly Der Stuermer thrived on lurid tales of Jewish sexual crimes and Jewish "ritual murders"; its obscenity was nauseating even to many Nazis".

    You will note that not all Nazis were enthusiastic about Herr Streicher and his allegations.

    The following is an extract from my own website:

    This website is about false allegations of child abuse - mainly those directed at the Catholic Church in Ireland. I do not dispute that there are real cases of abuse of children by clerics but my contention is that these have been used as an excuse to launch a witch-hunt. This witch-hunt has now spread to every part of our society so that every teacher, doctor, nurse, social worker etc has to take specific precautions to guard against becoming the target of a false accusation. ........

    "Letter to Sunday Tribune re Child-Killing Allegations"
    Christian Brothers, Child Killing Allegations, Letter to Sunday Tribune
    is a summary of several allegations that the Christian Brothers were responsible for killing children in their care. (We are not talking about negligence here.) The allegations were made in a 4 to 5 year period beginning in 1999 (i.e. just after the broadcast of Mary Raftery's "States of Fear" series by the national broadcast company RTE in April/May of that year). Prior to the broadcast of "States of Fear", there was just one allegation of that type and it was directed at the Sisters of Mercy. I have discussed this in the essay "Sister Xavieria and "Child Killing" in Goldenbridge".
    Sister Xavieria, Sisters of Mercy, 'Child Killing' in Goldenbridge
    (This allegation followed RTE's broadcast of Louis Lentin's documentary "Dear Daughter" in February 1996 which made serious allegations against the Sisters of Mercy in Goldenbridge residential school.)


    The above is more relevant to the subject of this thread than general claims that "Hitler was a Catholic" etc Also the people who made these false claims seem to have got away with it, whereas even some Nazis were nauseated by Julius Streicher.

    HOWEVER the subject of this thread is "Nazis, the Catholic Church and Sexual Abuse"

    waffle waffle waffle
    You claimed "it is a fact that ..." - the opinion of an American Journalist is far from from fact. Quite the opposite.


    Also I see your website there and its great that lunatics like are go to the lengths you do as it only contributes the impending annihilation of this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation.
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  9. #89
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Anti-Clericalism and Anti-Semitism

    Quote Originally Posted by LongLiberal View Post
    You claimed "it is a fact that ..." - the opinion of an American Journalist is far from from fact. Quite the opposite.


    Also I see your website there and its great that lunatics like are go to the lengths you do as it only contributes the impending annihilation of this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation.
    By "the opinion of an American journalist" I presume you mean William Shirer's depiction of Julius Streicher as a vicious pornographer who made false sexual allegations against Jews - up to and including the ritual murder of children? There is nothing at all controversial about Shirer's "opinion". The following is from the Wikipedia article on Julius Streicher and his newspaper Der Sturmer.
    Julius Streicher - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ...... Streicher’s opponents complained to authorities that Der Stürmer violated a statute against religious offense with his constant promulgation of the “blood libel” — the medieval accusation that Jews killed Christian children to use their blood to make matzoh. Streicher argued that his accusations were based on race, not religion, and that his communications were political speech, and therefore protected by the German constitution.[5]

    Streicher orchestrated his early campaigns against Jews to make the most extreme possible claims, short of violating a law that might get the paper shut down. ........ He claimed that Jews were white-slavers and were responsible for over 90 percent of the prostitutes in the country. Real unsolved killings in Germany, especially of children or women, were often confidently explained in the pages of Der Stürmer as cases of “Jewish ritual murder.”

    One of Streicher’s constant themes was the sexual violation of ethnically German women by Jews, a subject which served as an excuse to publish semi-pornographic tracts and images detailing degrading sexual acts. These “essays” proved an especially appealing feature of the paper for young men. With the help of his notorious cartoonist, Phillip "Fips" Rupprecht, Streicher published image after image of gruesome Jewish stereotypes and sexually-charged encounters. His portrayal of Jews as subhuman and evil is widely considered to have played a critical role in the dehumanization and marginalization of the Jewish minority in the eyes of common Germans .....

    Streicher also combed the pages of the Talmud and the Old Testament in search of passages which could paint their ancient Jewish authors as harsh or cruel, a practice which continues to this day among anti-Semites. In 1929, this close study of Jewish scripture helped convict Streicher in a case known as “The Great Nuremberg Ritual Murder Trial.” His familiarity with Jewish text was proof to the court that his attacks were religious in nature; Streicher was found guilty and imprisoned for two months.
    .........

    The allegations of child murder against the Christian Brothers and the Sisters of Mercy have now been discredited, and even those who made them, no longer try to repeat them. But perhaps LongLiberal believes them still?? It might explain his description of the Catholic Church as "this Nazi, pedophile infested, backward, evil and ridiculous organisation". Apart from the word "Nazi", this string of obscenities could be taken from the pages of Der Sturmer, as Streicher's depiction of the Jews!
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  10. #90
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    LongLiberal
    Regarding your quotations from "Mein Kamph" and Hitler's public speeches, do you understand that the book "Hitler's Table Talk" consists of officially recorded notes of his private conversations with his confidantes at the dinner table during the years 1941 - 44. (Martin Bormann was one of the note-takers.) These represent proof of Hitler's REAL views. Regarding his PUBLIC statements - he made an awful lot about his desire for peace; do you believe those?
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