This day in Ireland 938 years ago....

[Riadach]

So if the Mc Carthy's weren't in your opinion pre-eminent in Munster who was? They according to my limited research were the chief clan of the Eoghanacht's of Desmond.

Boru was a kennedy they were only a minor sept until he rose to prominence and then launched an assault to the kingship.

They were, but the Eoghanacht confederation was rather a weak one. The particpating septs were very much left to their own devices, and the kingship of the province appeared to alternate, with various tribes, such as the Uí Chonaill, Déise and Uí Liatháin in submission to them. They had some convincing successes in the North but it was only with the rise of the Dál gCais that Munster put up any sort of challenge to the high-kingship, with a rigid hierarchy and with more than a nominal provincial kingship. Btw Brian Ború was not a Kennedy, after all it was only after him that fixed surnames were established in Ireland. Likewise there was never a Mac Cárthaigh king of Munster.

[Riadach]

There is no consensus - but its unlikely that there was much more than One Million People here in Ireland at the time of the Anglo-Norman Invasion

- and it could have been a lot less.

Some say 250,000 even. There is evidence for overpopulation in literary sources after Christianity arrived, but the great plagues of the 6th and 7th centuries may have put pay to that.

[18 Brumaire]

New History of Ireland II 'The Trembling Sod' by F.J. Byrne, as well as the final chapters of his epic Irish Kings and High-Kings give a quite good account of the latter. The final chapters of New History of Ireland I also delve into the politics of the era.

Thanks. I have Irish Kings and High-Kings. I will have a look at the other two.

[Riadach]

I think they're available in paperback now. 40 euro each.

[Catalpa]

Some say 250,000 even. There is evidence for overpopulation in literary sources after Christianity arrived, but the great plagues of the 6th and 7th centuries may have put pay to that.

Its a fascinating subject but I think we (and I don't mean Ireland per se) are probably underestimating pre modern population figures.

Though there is no doubt that the plagues of the 6th and 7th centuries caused huge losses I think that they must have recovered by the 9/10th centuries anyway.