This day in Ireland 938 years ago....

[Breadan O'Connor]

Well a disunified Ireland turned out to be more than they could chew anyway

- they never did fully conquer the Gaels.

So I think we would have had a pretty good chance...

But it may be that the disunity of Ireland was why they never fully captured the country, although they came very close.

If there were only one kingdom then when it was overthrown the whole country would fall (as happened in England).

The decentralised structure of Ireland meant that even if one kingdom were captured others survived.

[Keith-M]

The country ITSELF is the unitary entity, culturally, spiritually and geographically etc, etc.
Your culture would be respected IF you and your folk can respect our's and instead of focusing on our small few differences we cultivate or many common bonds.

I'm talking about history from almost a thousand years ago. Culturally the island was quite diverse and of course with the arrival of the Vikings and Normans it would go on to be even more diverse. Spiritually there was no unity. Patrick had brought Christianity to some parts of the island, but some held onto their pagan beliefs. Again the spiritual diversity would get bigger in the following centuries.

Ignoring the cultural and spiritual and differences that existed at the time, that gew in the following decades and remain with us to day does no one any favours. Yes, there are things that all the people of the island share, but few are unique to this island.

[eoghanacht]

Showing your bias?

Not at all, i'm not a Mc Carthy lol. we are a minor sept of the clan. Just basing it on the fact that they, the O'Neills and Mc Carthy's we the two prominent ruling dynasties.

[eoghanacht]

I'm talking about history from almost a thousand years ago. Culturally the island was quite diverse and of course with the arrival of the Vikings and Normans it would go on to be even more diverse. Spiritually there was no unity. Patrick had brought Christianity to some parts of the island, but some held onto their pagan beliefs. Again the spiritual diversity would get bigger in the following centuries.

Ignoring the cultural and spiritual and differences that existed at the time, that gew in the following decades and remain with us to day does no one any favours. Yes, there are things that all the people of the island share, but few are unique to this island.

You ignore quiet a bit yourself.

[markjbloggs]

All fascinating stuff on this thread.

Does anyone know what the concensus guesstimate for the population of Ireland and England was at the time?

[Lazarus]

However there was a ritual called the banais ríghe in which a king was wedded to the land - thus sovereignty was bestowed upon him (and not contained within blood) so long as he cared for the land. McMurrough would have known about Dal Riata and the downfall of the Picts, he would have known of the nature of the Normans - he would have understood the danger of putting 'foreigners' in the position in which he put them... yet he scorned the needs of the land, his culture, country, systems of laws instead favouring his own ambition and putting the land into peril, thus in deeds he was not a king in the way that the responsibilities of that role are described in the banais ríghe (where that applied - Leinster may not have bothered with such things being so heavily Viking and Saxon influenced - however).

Vassals would have done whatever they were told to do and not opposed him (particularly with his new army) this does not signify approval.

Do you think McMurrough was a Fianna Fáiler, thranduil? Sounds like one, doesn't he?

By the way, Catalpa, I assume that the tuatha Dé Dannan (I'm trying to remember back 50 years here so forgive the spelling) and the Fír Bolg takeover, was all that mythology or what? If you can direct me to a link I would be so grateful. Love this stuff. Feel like we are losing it all. Thanks again.

[joel]

I'm talking about history from almost a thousand years ago. Culturally the island was quite diverse and of course with the arrival of the Vikings and Normans it would go on to be even more diverse. Spiritually there was no unity. Patrick had brought Christianity to some parts of the island, but some held onto their pagan beliefs. Again the spiritual diversity would get bigger in the following centuries.

Ignoring the cultural and spiritual and differences that existed at the time, that gew in the following decades and remain with us to day does no one any favours. Yes, there are things that all the people of the island share, but few are unique to this island.

The Gaelic culture is unique to Ireland. It applied throughout Ireland.

"Island of saints and scholars"? - didn't know it was pagan too?

[18 Brumaire]

I'm talking about history from almost a thousand years ago. Culturally the island was quite diverse....

What cultural diversity. Could you give some examples. All the indications are that Ireland of 1,000 years was culturally homogenous, but politcally fragmented.

[Toland]

Great story, one thing hasnt changed anyway.
938 years later and people in Ireland are still calling themselves foreigners.

peeeeeeeuuuuuccccchhhhhhh!

[Riadach]

Not at all, i'm not a Mc Carthy lol. we are a minor sept of the clan. Just basing it on the fact that they, the O'Neills and Mc Carthy's we the two prominent ruling dynasties.

But they weren't. McCarthy weren't even pre-eminent in Munster. The best they could hope for, without external intervention, was the kingship of Desmond, and even then that was mainly through external partitioning.