Fine Gael economic mismanagement: 1980's. Can anyone defend it?

[hiding behind a poster]

You are about the 20th person you repeat the above. Yet no one is willing to defend Fine Gael in office between november 1982 to 23 years ago. Posters have tried to derail the thread, have been dishonest and have raised off topic points - but no one has defended the longest government of the 80's management of our finances. Funny that.

How can the economic landscape that that government faced when it took over be "off topic"?

[owedtojoy]

Jayzes, lads, are ye still ridin' ths ould nag, after what's happening in the country today?

[Congalltee]

Jayzes, lads, are ye still ridin' ths ould nag, after what's happening in the country today?

It garret four years to more than double the national debt. Lenihan has done it with a stroke today.

However the point of this historical thread, is that some FG spoofers state they can defend their appalling record in the 80s. They cannot. Because it is record beyond any defence.

In twenty years you will probably find some FF equivilant doing the same.

[hiding behind a poster]

It garret four years to more than double the national debt. Lenihan has done it with a stroke today.

However the point of this historical thread, is that some FG spoofers state they can defend their appalling record in the 80s. They cannot. Because it is record beyond any defence.

In twenty years you will probably find some FF equivilant doing the same.

Why won't you accept that a government's economic record can only be analysed in the context of the state of that economy when it took over, and in the context of international factors over which such a government has no control? Do that, and you'll have a debate till the cows come home - as I told you on page 1 of this thread. But without that, I'm not gonna waste my time posting a detailed analysis of the Irish economy with someone who refuses to accept the basics of economic analysis.

Its up to you, Congaltee - either you want a debate, or you don't. So far the evidence tends strongly towards the latter.

[Passionateheart]

Like what they say about Kennedy and the Bay Of Pigs, that coalition of blueshirts and fake socialists inherited a situation! By the way the abolition of rates by FF ( although Albert was against it) is often pointed to as a major reason for the increase in borrowing which led to many other problems then. The blueshirts, or so I have heard , towards the end of the '77 campaign promised to abolish them also! I fear that the next coalition government which will almost certainly be of the same hue will also have inherited an impossible mess with similar results. Also that Government was led by an economist and the opposition by an accountant, they're probably the worst type of people to lead a nation! So with Dickie favourite with Paddy power to be the next Taoiseach I have a disgusting feeling of Deja Vu comming on!

[RahenyFG]

This is how Fine Gael and Labour left the Irish economy. They held office from November 1982 to March 1987 (ie the longest government of the '80s), yet they blame Haughey for the woes of the economy (Lynch was in charge 77 to 79, haughey Dec 79 to 81, Fitzgerald held power briefly, Haughey's GUBU made way for Fitzgerald's hapless government.)

Here is the sitution in 1987.

http://www.ictu.ie/download/pdf/prog...l_recovery.pdf

The wiki short version

A few points arise:
1. The deficit for 1983 to 1987 was 8% and over.
After the programme for National Recovery, Haughey's government slashed it to 3%.
2. FG wanted to revive - sounds very weak. Why didn't they?
3. Is slamming on the breaks (particularly to inflation), good enough to justify the mythology that FG is superior to other parties on the economy?

[SIZE="6"]Does anyone want to try defend the Economic Management of FG in the 1980's? [/SIZE](see if they can do without using the name Haughey)

(Here is the current statistics.
http://www.centralbank.ie/data/AnnRe...Statistics.pdf)

I really hope the new FG/Labour government isn't a repeat of the 80s.

One thing I will say about the 80s is that if FG would have been a single party government, the economy must likely would have been in a better state by 1987. FG could have made the cutbacks they were desperately needed to make the economy competitive again. The cutbacks introduced by FF between 1987-1989 were essentially cutbacks FG had planned and later influenced through the Tallaght Strategy. Even if the economy would have been in a better state in 1987, with years of heavy cutbacks and Fianna Fáil opposition politics of populism, Fine Gael would still have been voted out of office in 1987 and I also suspect the Celtic Tiger may have started a few years earlier in the early 90s as opposed to the late 90s.

[leftsoc]

I really hope the new FG/Labour government isn't a repeat of the 80s.

One thing I will say about the 80s is that if FG would have been a single party government, the economy must likely would have been in a better state by 1987. FG could have made the cutbacks they were desperately needed to make the economy competitive again. The cutbacks introduced by FF between 1987-1989 were essentially cutbacks FG had planned and later influenced through the Tallaght Strategy. Even if the economy would have been in a better state in 1987, with years of heavy cutbacks and Fianna Fáil opposition politics of populism, Fine Gael would still have been voted out of office in 1987 and I also suspect the Celtic Tiger may have started a few years earlier in the early 90s as opposed to the late 90s.

How many of those wishing the 1980's were actually made worse were actually alive in the 1980's? How many would have been born in miserable English ghettoes instead of this lovely little country, if the slash and burn policy had been even more severe?

FF have had decades of help from a tame media and a castrated economics profession in rewriting the history of the 1970's and 1980's. Those who rememeber the Manifesto know where the blame lies. FF tried Voodoo economics in the 1970's and destroyed my generation's youth. Now they've taken away the retirements we had worked for. Bertie was there for both treasons, what a man.

[RahenyFG]

How many of those wishing the 1980's were actually made worse were actually alive in the 1980's? How many would have been born in miserable English ghettoes instead of this lovely little country, if the slash and burn policy had been even more severe?

FF have had decades of help from a tame media and a castrated economics profession in rewriting the history of the 1970's and 1980's. Those who rememeber the Manifesto know where the blame lies. FF tried Voodoo economics in the 1970's and destroyed my generation's youth. Now they've taken away the retirements we had worked for. Bertie was there for both treasons, what a man.

I was only born in the 80s and have no recollection of the times, only through stories by others and photos of the times. The cutting was more severe tho under FF then it was under FG/LAB. The economy stagnated under FG/LAB but in credit to FF, under the auspices of FG's Tallaght Strategy, the economy somewhat improved and this was the first step on the way to recovery and ultimately the boom years.

[hammer]

We are where we are

Going forward..

We all partied in the 80`s....................only joking.

[Neilob]

Hmmmm, wrought by Fianna Fail excess from 1977 to 1981 I seem to recall. Probably true that the coalition parties were unable to agree on what to do to handle that crisis and it was not a very good government, but nobody could accuse Garrett of being dishonest