If Dev wasn't the most important Irish Politician of the 20th Century: who was?

[Catalpa]

I remember the so called ban on students attending Trinity, which is where I wanted to go. My father, a west of Ireland staunch catholic told me solemnly that if I wanted to go to Trinity, that is where I would go.

And the ban was routinely ignored by most catholics. So much for the power of McQuaid. He was simply ignored.

By the time I was getting ready to go to uni. the ban had been lifted. But it had very little impact on anyone.

It wasn't a 'ban' as such but any Catholic who wanted to study there had to clear it through McQuaid's desk first.

IIRC it went in 1970 as the number of students who didn't bother to inform him grew and grew...

[Andrew49]

I think Dev was the only leader in the free world who sympathised with the German legate on the death of the Fuehrer. He was the like the coward going home at night passing the graveyard, praying and praising God, but added Old nick is not so bad either"", just to be on the safe side.

Douglas Hyde, Ireland's president during the second world war, offered condolences to Germany's representative in Dublin over the death of Adolf Hitler, newly declassified records show. It was believed that Ireland's prime minister, Eamon de Valera, was the only leader to convey official condolences, a gesture criticised worldwide.But the presidential record for 1938-1957, made public in 2005, sheds new light on one of the most embarrassing chapters in Irish history - its decision to maintain cordial relations with the Nazis even after news of the Holocaust emerged.

[Catalpa]

I think Dev was the only leader in the free world who sympathised with the German legate on the death of the Fuehrer. He was the like the coward going home at night passing the graveyard, praying and praising God, but added Old nick is not so bad either"", just to be on the safe side.

Will you stop being so stupid for crying out loud.

[captainwillard]

It wasn't a 'ban' as such but any Catholic who wanted to study there had to clear it through McQuaid's desk first.

IIRC it went in 1970 as the number of students who didn't bother to inform him grew and grew...

Youi are indeed correct. Some form of consent was required but it was largely ignored. His power was that of a paper tiger.

[netwhizkid]

Michael Collins was Ireland's most important political figure of the 2oth Century, without him we would be still under British rule. The Civil War was a disgrace and De Valera was a traitor to Ireland and the cause.

[toughbutfair]

Dev 1916 - brave man
War of independence - why wasn't he negotiating
Civil war - worst instance in our history, a disgrace he didn't accept the people's vote

1930s - Ridiculous economic policies which continued through to 1950s ensuring Ireland was a dump

WW2 - played a blinder, hedged his bets as much as possible just incase the Germans won but helped the Brits and yanks enough to keep them from invading us.

That's my take on him.

[captainwillard]

Michael Collins was Ireland's most important political figure of the 2oth Century, without him we would be still under British rule. The Civil War was a disgrace and De Valera was a traitor to Ireland and the cause.

Without Michael Collins, we would still be under British rule? I doubt that very much. He was just one man. It is like Albert saying he is responsible for the peace process.

[netwhizkid]

Without Michael Collins, we would still be under British rule? I doubt that very much. He was just one man. It is like Albert saying he is responsible for the peace process.

If Michael Collins and the new free state had torn up the treaty Ireland would have been retaken by the British, it was only through sheer bluff that the Brits sued for a truce as they had completely overestimated the capabilities of the IRA, that and an excellent campaign of killing spys and informers and wiping out their intelligence by the IRA saw the British flying blind against us.

As Ireland was the first nation to fight the British Empire to its knees I argue that Michael Collins not only changed Irish history but that of the world as the loss of Ireland on the Brits doorstep saw a massive upsurge in Nationalism through the empire which culminated with Mohandas Gandhi and his resistance to the Empire, with the loss of India the Empire effectivly ended and through the 50's and 60's and 70's the other states ceded from the Empire through struggle or peaceful means.

Michael Collins the man who brought down the British Empire.

[Catalpa]

Dev 1916 - brave man
War of independence - why wasn't he negotiating
Civil war - worst instance in our history, a disgrace he didn't accept the people's vote

1930s - Ridiculous economic policies which continued through to 1950s ensuring Ireland was a dump

WW2 - played a blinder, hedged his bets as much as possible just incase the Germans one but helped the Brits and yanks enough to keep them from invading us.

That's my take on him.

Dev 1916 - brave man

Indeed he was

War of independence - why wasn't he negotiating

The British would not negotiate until they knew the game was up.

Civil war - worst instance in our history, a disgrace he didn't accept the people's vote

The Civil War began just 6 days after the June 1922 elections IIRC - and the first shots were fired by the Free State Army using British Atillery!

I hope no one is seriously suggesting that Dev led the 26 cos from Peace to War in just six days?

1930s - Ridiculous economic policies which continued through to 1950s ensuring Ireland was a dump

Protectionism was an international way of protecting home industries - Dev followed suit - as did the Inter Party Coalition Governments of the 40s and 50s did too.

It started to be wound down from 1957/58 - when Dev was still the Taoiseach!

WW2 - played a blinder, hedged his bets as much as possible just incase the Germans one but helped the Brits and yanks enough to keep them from invading us.

He played his cards well anyway thats for sure.

[captainwillard]

If Michael Collins and the new free state had torn up the treaty Ireland would have been retaken by the British, it was only through sheer bluff that the Brits sued for a truce as they had completely overestimated the capabilities of the IRA, that and an excellent campaign of killing spys and informers and wiping out their intelligence by the IRA saw the British flying blind against us.

As Ireland was the first nation to fight the British Empire to its knees I argue that Michael Collins not only changed Irish history but that of the world as the loss of Ireland on the Brits doorstep saw a massive upsurge in Nationalism through the empire which culminated with Mohandas Gandhi and his resistance to the Empire, with the loss of India the Empire effectivly ended and through the 50's and 60's and 70's the other states ceded from the Empire through struggle or peaceful means.

Michael Collins the man who brought down the British Empire.

You sir are a genius. I commend you on your unique grasp of twentieth century politics. Would you go so far as to suggest that Michael Collins is the most important man of the twentieth century?