Ireland (All) Politicians Who Command(ed) Respect

[Congalltee]

This is the problem. One man's "greatest Irish politician of the 20th Century by a mile"

is another man's

"long streak of paralysed piss, a blight on Irish political life for half a century and utterly retardant influence on Irish public life".

Opinions, eh?
Perhaps the latter opinion-holder could expand on their unsupported view by substituting who they believe was greater than a 1916 leader,the leader under whom Ireland got International recognition, who saved the country from being involved in a world war, drafted and gained popular acceptance for a written Constitution, established a highly successful political party and newspaper, and was President of the Executive Council, leader of the opposition (both inside and outside the Dail), Taoiseach and President, to win the title of Irish Politician of the 20th century?

I can't think of anyone, can the latter porter or any other of those who have psychopathic hatred of Dev?

[Pauli]

Opinions, eh?
Perhaps the latter opinion-holder could expand on their unsupported view by substituting who they believe was greater than a 1916 leader,the leader under whom Ireland got International recognition, who saved the country from being involved in a world war, drafted and gained popular acceptance for a written Constitution, established a highly successful political party and newspaper, and was President of the Executive Council, leader of the opposition (both inside and outside the Dail), Taoiseach and President, to win the title of Irish Politician of the 20th century?

I can't think of anyone, can the latter porter or any other of those who have psychopathic hatred of Dev?

My point is that there is plenty of support for both views. The period encapsulating the fight for independence and the foundation of the state is still one which arouses strong feelings. There are some figures from our history around whom no genuine consensus can be found. DeValera is certainly one of those figures.

[eoghanacht]

Collins betrayed Ireland, and made civil war inevitable.

I agree but as President it was dev who should have been at the negotiating table not Collins. Dev knew exactly the outcome of those talks, so fearing history would judge him as the traitor he really is instead of the elder-statement of the free-state.

He cared more for his own carrer than his country or it's inhabitants. Something tat has percolated down the FF ranks to this day. Lumbering us with a political class who's (grandaddy may or may not have been in the GPO that easter) thus leaving them with a gross sense of entitlement.

[Congalltee]

My point is that there is plenty of support for both views. The period encapsulating the fight for independence and the foundation of the state is still one which arouses strong feelings. There are some figures from our history around whom no genuine consensus can be found. DeValera is certainly one of those figures.

heligan dialetics don't work when it comes to listing achievements. As a matter of fact no other politician held office for as long as dev, had more influence than him or achieved any of matters I listed above.
There is plenty of support for the view that man never went to the moon, that climate change is unaffected by humans or that
Communism is a viable political option. It does not make any of them right or barely credible. If someone can provide evidence that there was a more important politician in the 20th century than Dev i would be fascinated to hear from then-if they can day release of course.

[iartaoiseach]

I was very young when he was active but the late Jim Kemmy always struck me as a very straightforward honest and caring man who never minced his words. for the North the same applies to Seamus Mallon. he was I thought more impressive than Hume but that could be down to his more direct no nonsense way of speaking.

[Congalltee]

Dev was the first political thief ffs. He stole the Irish Press which was funded by American donations so that the Irish people would have a voice. Do not mention that traitor. He used his American birth to avoid the death penalty when all his comrades were executed.

He is a classic comic book version of history. Please name a more influential irish politician than dev or anyone who contributed more than a Constitution, a political party,A newspaper and neutrality ?

[Congalltee]

I agree but as President it was dev who should have been at the negotiating table not Collins. Dev knew exactly the outcome of those talks, so fearing history would judge him as the traitor he really is instead of the elder-statement of the free-state.

He cared more for his own carrer than his country or it's inhabitants. Something tat has percolated down the FF ranks to this day. Lumbering us with a political class who's (grandaddy may or may not have been in the GPO that easter) thus leaving them with a gross sense of entitlement.

A 21st century psychobabble version of history, if ever I saw one.

[Half Nelson]

Paisley, the Bigot Anti-Papist Loyalist and Leader of the DUP ended up, to my mind, as the one true hero of the Peace Process. Regardless of his beliefs, motives and dogma, he correctly demanded IRA disarmament as a precursor to the 'promises' terms and conditions that Bertie and Blair would have accepted from Sinn Fein before he allowed the DUP sign the agreement.

Once signed, he accepted, promoted and abided by those terms.

Wish FF had anyone with Paisley's integrity.

Paisley was arguably the greatest recruiting agent for the IRA. The greater part of his life was spent fomenting sectarian tension and pandering to the base instinct of tribalism.
That he decided to moderate his behaviour as his judgment beckons is to his credit and I don't believe anybody should be refused forgiveness, but a near deathbed conversion does not wipe out history, to place him among great politicians. He has made up some ground, that's all.

[The Lighthouse Keeper]

If there was a unionist politician I had time for, it was David Irvine. He seemed the only one that could talk bluntly and straightly about the mess that is the North, and would be useful to have around at the moment.

[Pauli]

heligan dialetics don't work when it comes to listing achievements. As a matter of fact no other politician held office for as long as dev, had more influence than him or achieved any of matters I listed above.
There is plenty of support for the view that man never went to the moon, that climate change is unaffected by humans or that
Communism is a viable political option. It does not make any of them right or barely credible. If someone can provide evidence that there was a more important politician in the 20th century than Dev i would be fascinated to hear from then-if they can day release of course.

Longevity in office will do that for a politician, as Robert Mugabe could tell you.