Catholic Schools--recent statement

[Missa]

Religion in schools
Archbishop favours a plurality of schools (Printed today, see link below)

The Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, has said that a pluralist society can be better served by a plurality in schools, "in which the variety of cultures and religious backgrounds are reflected, rather than through centralised uniformity".

Dr Martin was speaking at the opening of the academic year of the School of Educational Studies at Dublin City University,

“Guaranteeing denominational religious instruction in a new form of State-sponsored primary school, not directly under religious patronage, would also allow the State to have an overseeing role in ensuring the quality of teaching of religion in order to ensure that abuses do not emerge or any form of fundamentalism in any religious tradition gain ground," the Archbishop said.

In a major address, Dr Martin presented a blueprint for meeting the challenge of providing for denominational religious education in an increasingly multi-cultural Ireland.

He advised that any new system should be strongly rooted in the community, and any system of direct state patronage should foster rather than weaken this.

"In a climate of emerging religious diversity, such state-managed schools should not be a-religious or God-less ... Religious education should be an integral part of the curriculum. We do not live in a God-less society," he said.

The archbishop suggested that a programme of religious instruction could have an element of instruction on the variety of religious traditions present in the community.

But such a programme should also permit parents who wish it to have their children educated in the faith to which they belong.

"This is the model that is present in numerous countries to which they belong. This is the model that is present in numerous countries in continental Europe and has shown its worth. It is the model in existing community schools at secondary level in Ireland,” Dr Martin said.

Full text of speech here
http://www.dcu.ie/news/2006/sep/archbishopspeech.pdf



What about people who are athiests or agnostic? I'm not sure if the statement above is a step in the right direction or an attempt to dig his heels in and stake his claim to our childrens' minds and spirituality.

I might add this is what Educate Together are already doing with their REEP program, and as far as I know it's not being funded by the DoE.

I wonder if there is an angle here...what percentage of the schools (either the buildings, the land or both) are owned by the Church. If schools became patronised by the government instead of having the Bishop of the local area be the patron, wouldn't there have to be some rationalisation of these resources (land/buildings) paid to the Church? But wouldn't the church still have a hand in the running of the school since many BOMs have the local priest on the Board and many or most of the schools are located directly beside a church.

[jady88]

If i suggested that we were to divide schools based on race or class (although this does occur on an unofficial level anyway) the uproar would be unbelievable and yet no one realy seems to mind that our children from even pre-school age are being segragated depending on their religious faith. It is disgusting pure and simple. No excuse can remain for what is a negative and backward ideology.

There is only one answer as to why the people remain silent on this matter ad in my view it is money. We know how muhch it would cost to seize the chruch run schools and simply don't want to deal with it. In order to build a unified nation we must allow all children to be educated to together.

[stannis]

Archbishop favours a plurality of schools = "multicultural" British style faith schools, presumably? Oh, yes, a step in the right direction.

The Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, has said that a pluralist society can be better served by a plurality in schools, "in which the variety of cultures and religious backgrounds are reflected, rather than through centralised uniformity".

The good archbishop should be ignored. He has obviously not been following recent events in Britain and Holland.

[badger]

If the school receives funding form the government children should be taught religion but it should be a class that covers as many of the world religions as possible and should also touch on atheism and agnosticism, in my opinion the more you learn about the myriad of opinions about religion/god the more you realize that its mainly a load of BS and that you should just ignore the likes of the good Archbishop.

[dubsthcentralboy]

Parents have a right to choose what sort of school their children should go to. The idea that purely-secular schools serve everyone because they are values-neutral is a nonsense. Secularism is a value itself, arguing that religion ought to have no place in public life. Secondly, secular schools do not cater for everyone's needs and wishes. I am religious, I pay taxes and I would like my children to be educated in a way that reflects my values and philosophical outlook. Other people are secular and wish to have their children educated in that way, fine - that is their right too, a right I respect and would fight to safeguard. Pluralism is good, but secularism and pluralism are not the same thing. If secularists want to be truly plural they will accept the rights of parents.

By the way, drawing the parallel between faith, race or colour is a nonsense. Faith is a values choice, race and colour are not.

[jonna]

Religion in schools
Archbishop favours a plurality of schools (Printed today, see link below)

The Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, Dr Diarmuid Martin, has said that a pluralist society can be better served by a plurality in schools, "in which the variety of cultures and religious backgrounds are reflected, rather than through centralised uniformity".

Dr Martin was speaking at the opening of the academic year of the School of Educational Studies at Dublin City University,

“Guaranteeing denominational religious instruction in a new form of State-sponsored primary school, not directly under religious patronage, would also allow the State to have an overseeing role in ensuring the quality of teaching of religion in order to ensure that abuses do not emerge or any form of fundamentalism in any religious tradition gain ground," the Archbishop said.

In a major address, Dr Martin presented a blueprint for meeting the challenge of providing for denominational religious education in an increasingly multi-cultural Ireland.

He advised that any new system should be strongly rooted in the community, and any system of direct state patronage should foster rather than weaken this.

"In a climate of emerging religious diversity, such state-managed schools should not be a-religious or God-less ... Religious education should be an integral part of the curriculum. We do not live in a God-less society," he said.

The archbishop suggested that a programme of religious instruction could have an element of instruction on the variety of religious traditions present in the community.

But such a programme should also permit parents who wish it to have their children educated in the faith to which they belong.

"This is the model that is present in numerous countries to which they belong. This is the model that is present in numerous countries in continental Europe and has shown its worth. It is the model in existing community schools at secondary level in Ireland,” Dr Martin said.

Full text of speech here
http://www.dcu.ie/news/2006/sep/archbishopspeech.pdf



What about people who are athiests or agnostic? I'm not sure if the statement above is a step in the right direction or an attempt to dig his heels in and stake his claim to our childrens' minds and spirituality.

I might add this is what Educate Together are already doing with their REEP program, and as far as I know it's not being funded by the DoE.

I wonder if there is an angle here...what percentage of the schools (either the buildings, the land or both) are owned by the Church. If schools became patronised by the government instead of having the Bishop of the local area be the patron, wouldn't there have to be some rationalisation of these resources (land/buildings) paid to the Church? But wouldn't the church still have a hand in the running of the school since many BOMs have the local priest on the Board and many or most of the schools are located directly beside a church.

The church would have a hand in the running of the schools...Sounds a bit like the Treaty that was offered to Ireland in the 1920's by the British..Ireland would be self governed, but would have to take an oath of allegiance to the British crown.....
So the government would today pay the church for their lands and buildings, but the church would still have a hand in the running of those schools...
Religion should be a choice, and not something taught in school (in my opinion)..The very act of teaching it as a subject next to science, history, geography etc..is subtly instilling that the teachings are true into the minds of the pupils....Religion is a personal thing and should be focussed within the family and perhaps the community, but not as a taught subject in schools....

jonna

[Libero]

I am religious, I pay taxes and I would like my children to be educated in a way that reflects my values and philosophical outlook.

You don't need schools to run indoctrination sessions or have an "ethos" to achieve that aim. Education doesn't begin and end inside schools. Couldn't you just teach them about religion at home or in Sunday schools or wherever? If you're that into it, it shouldn't be a problem and you avoid the risk of bad or lazy religion teachers not living up to your standards.

Also, the sentence quoted would be more accurate if it read: "...I would like my children and others' children to be educated in a way that reflects my values and philosophical outlook." After all, permitting religious education in schools in a context where the huge majority of schools are owned and managed by one church, means that lots and lots of children are going to be exposed to that religious education unless their parents are proactive enough to remove them from such classes.

I don't think I'm being paranoid in saying that preaching to the unconverted is a big reason why Catholic types want religious education in state schools (and as we read here, put forward their own children as somehow being deprived if it isn't effectively foisted on others).

Pluralism is good, but secularism and pluralism are not the same thing. If secularists want to be truly plural they will accept the rights of parents.

Yes, we don't accept this "right" to have religious education in public schools, so don't expect us to recoil when reminded we're not being pluralist. That's what securalism is about: separating church and state. And pluralism isn't always a good thing: not when it means permitting bad things. Religious indoctrination in public schools is a bad thing.
Like I said, do it at home or with your religious community.

[hinkar]

Religion should be a choice, and not something taught in school (in my opinion)..The very act of teaching it as a subject next to science, history, geography etc..is subtly instilling that the teachings are true into the minds of the pupils....

But the teachings are true...

[hinkar]

If i suggested that we were to divide schools based on race or class (although this does occur on an unofficial level anyway) the uproar would be unbelievable and yet no one realy seems to mind that our children from even pre-school age are being segragated depending on their religious faith. It is disgusting pure and simple. No excuse can remain for what is a negative and backward ideology.

The Irish constitution states "Legislation providing State aid for schools shall not discriminate between schools under the management of different religious denominations, nor be such as to affect prejudicially the right of any child to attend a school receiving public money without attending religious instruction at that school."

Catholic (or Muslim or Protestant) schools have as much right to funding an non-denominational schools. It shall not discriminate between them.