HSE blows millions on overpriced medicines

[Gruffalo]

THE health service has been accused of squandering hundreds of millions of euro over the past decade by paying massively inflated prices for prescription drugs.

New industry figures seen by the Irish Independent reveal how manufacturers are being paid up to 18 times more for some generic drugs in Ireland than for the same products in the UK.

The figures indicate that up to €98m a year of taxpayers' money could be saved on the medical card scheme alone if UK generic prices for some of the most popular medicines were being paid here.

The inflated costs -- which stem from agreements between the HSE and the pharmaceutical industry -- have been blamed on a number of factors.

These include the relatively small size of the Irish market and fears that drug companies could stop supplying certain vital products if forced to accept lower prices.

Industry figures show that the top 20 medicines prescribed under the medical card scheme cost the State almost €360m each year.

Nine of these brands have generic versions which are widely sold at a fraction of the original brand's cost in the UK -- despite being of equal quality.

However, in Ireland the same generics are only slightly cheaper than the branded versions.

Were these prices slashed to UK levels, between €89m and €98m could be saved on the medical card scheme each year, according to estimates.

HSE blows millions on overpriced medicines - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

How many hospitals are going to experience budget cuts?

How many people are going to have their wages cut?

How many people are going to be denied vital operations or have them delayed?

All of this suffering and more inflicted on ordinary decent people and all because Harney is making a balls up of the Health department. This is ridiculous when you look at the potential savings here, if she could do her bloody job properly.

How much more of this can Cowen take before he sticks his boot up her hole and lands her on the backbenches?

And it is not just Cowen, who keeps voting for her? Seriously, who in the name of God could have a clear conscience after putting a tick beside her name on a ballot paper?

[Rebus2008]

At last, the focus of the argument about drug expenditure reaches the actual problem.

Pharmacists have been highlighting this issue for last number of years. They do not set the price of drugs and gain no mark up on 80% of drugs dispensed. However, Harney is attempting to slash their fees by 34% by referring to drug expenditure.

Harney negotiates with teeh drug companies and has clearly done a p£ss poor job on it for last number of years. She has bow'd down to manufacturers and agree to their excessive prices (in comparision to UK) and now is trying to scape goat the community pharmacists who have no involvement in the process.

[cyberianpan]

At last, the focus of the argument about drug expenditure reaches the actual problem.

Pharmacists have been highlighting this issue for last number of years. They do not set the price of drugs and gain no mark up on 80% of drugs dispensed. However, Harney is attempting to slash their fees by 34% by referring to drug expenditure.

Harney negotiates with teeh drug companies and has clearly done a p£ss poor job on it for last number of years. She has bow'd down to manufacturers and agree to their excessive prices (in comparision to UK) and now is trying to scape goat the community pharmacists who have no involvement in the process.

Indeed

People seem to like to attack Harney on basis of ideology - whereas it is her management skills that ought to be at issue

cYp

[mcbubbles]

Incredible!

Wholesalers have a margin of 17% on all drugs.
Pharmacists have a margin of 33% on 25% of drugs.

Reducing prices at the bottom of the food chain would feed all the way up hitting wholesalers and pharmacists equally.

Instead the HSE hits pharmacies with everything in the hope that those that survive will negotiate better prices from wholesalers; but the wholesalers can’t negotiate with the drug companies for better prices because they are set by the HSE.

The whole thing is warped.

If the current pharmacy cuts get pushed through, do they then intend to tackle the base price further squeezing pharmacists?

[The OD]

Indeed

People seem to like to attack Harney on basis of ideology - whereas it is her management skills that ought to be at issue

cYp

Indeed, initially, I was of the opinion that whilst I didnt particularly like her, it was because of differences in of thinking.

However, the amount of incredibly simple errors being made by her department are getting to be shocking now, no matter what she might say, SHE is responsible for HER department, irrespective of the childish blubberings of her predecessors about how the salary and title doesnt bring with it any sort of responsibility.

Anyway, its kind of pointless now, her constituency is filled with people in negative equity who never see her except on TV looking grim abou the latest problem, issue or scandal in the HSE, the demographic has shifted significantly and bar an aging power base in Newcastle in west Dublin, she will be hard pressed to hold her seat (again) if not lose it entirely.

[Aindriu]

Yet more evidence that the HSE is a morally bankrupt organisation that does NOT have patients' best interests at heart. It is time for Harney and Drumm to go.

In the NHS, Doctors and prescribing nurses MUST prescribe generic medicines where they exist. Branded medicines are ONLY dispensed when there is no generic alternative. This is exactly how it should be.

[HPOL]

[QUOTE=The OD;1866136] However, the amount of incredibly simple errors being made by her department are getting to be shocking now, no matter what she might say, SHE is responsible for HER department, irrespective of the childish blubberings of her predecessors about how the salary and title doesnt bring with it any sort of responsibility.

The whole health service is a symptom of how it has been mismanged through the decades. In Dublin for instance first we had the Eastern Health Board which then became the Eastern Regional Health Authority with 11 areas, then we had the HSE with four areas.... with existing admin staff remaining and no job losses. The HSE was established as an organisation simply to divert ultimate responsibility away from the Minister of Health.... no more and no less. We constantly hear that in terms of policy - the minister has responsibility - and when attempts are made in the Dail to get answers to questions on health service cock ups the Minister says thats an issue for the HSE - nobody takes responsibility. With respect, what experience and credentials of management does a paediatric consultant bring to the table - there's a huge difference in managing a clinical paed department as opposed to being responsible for managing an entire health service and budget!! We need people with proven management and business acumen in both the Ministers office and HSE full stop!

[Rebus2008]

Incredible!

Wholesalers have a margin of 17% on all drugs.
Pharmacists have a margin of 33% on 25% of drugs.

Reducing prices at the bottom of the food chain would feed all the way up hitting wholesalers and pharmacists equally.

Instead the HSE hits pharmacies with everything in the hope that those that survive will negotiate better prices from wholesalers; but the wholesalers can’t negotiate with the drug companies for better prices because they are set by the HSE.

The whole thing is warped.

If the current pharmacy cuts get pushed through, do they then intend to tackle the base price further squeezing pharmacists?

Re: pharmacists, you must also consider that there is no margin on 75% of the drugs. THe DPS margin was always higher than it should be because of the lack of any mark up on medical card. Would have made sense years agon for HSE/DoHc to get rid of mark-ups (whihc will only rise as drugs rise) and go with flat fee regardless of drug cost. IPU have been caling for this and generic subsitution for years but Harney won't even meet them let alone take any freash thinking ideas on board.

[Middleaged]

Re: pharmacists, you must also consider that there is no margin on 75% of the drugs. THe DPS margin was always higher than it should be because of the lack of any mark up on medical card. Would have made sense years agon for HSE/DoHc to get rid of mark-ups (whihc will only rise as drugs rise) and go with flat fee regardless of drug cost. IPU have been caling for this and generic subsitution for years but Harney won't even meet them let alone take any freash thinking ideas on board.

All pharmacy's get a flat fee, for dispensing Medical Card scripts, and thats for each line.

Can anyone say that these generics are licenced by the IMB?

[Gruffalo]

Yet more evidence that the HSE is a morally bankrupt organisation that does NOT have patients' best interests at heart. It is time for Harney and Drumm to go.

In the NHS, Doctors and prescribing nurses MUST prescribe generic medicines where they exist. Branded medicines are ONLY dispensed when there is no generic alternative. This is exactly how it should be.

The NHS is a health service. We have a circus.