OECD report reveals Ireland’s below average spend on health

[factual]

Did you know that Irelands health spending is well below OECD averages.

See this story:

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...280-qqqx=1.asp

And did you know the income group that is most adversely affected by low public health spending.

You guessed: lower income people.

Obviously there are many ways to improve the service but we have to face the fact that we need to be prepared to spend more on it. See here:

Health Spend increases may force tax increases

Some quotes:

"The number of acute hospital beds in Ireland per 1,000 population was significantly lower than the OECD average - 2.9 hospital beds per 1,000 compared to the OECD average of 4.1 beds per 1,000. This is something that resonates strongly with the public. "

Sinn Fein TD Caoimhghin O Caolain has been quoted here as saying that last week that the deaths of more than 20 people in Monaghan could have been avoided if services at the town’s hospital had not been cut in recent years.

‘‘In the area where I live in Co Monaghan, there have been upwards of 20 avoidable deaths as a result of the contraction in service delivery at the acute hospital site in Monaghan in recent years,” he said.

O Caolain described it as ‘‘a terrible statistic, a terrible reality and a terrible indictment of government policy in this regard’’.

Its time for us to start thinking about the health service and started accepting that a good health service, accessible to all regardless of income, is going to cost money. Good health is probably the one thing we would each put above any other priority in our private lives and its time we improved our approach to health.

Sinn Fein recognise these problems and I would say health is one of Sinn Fein's strongest policy areas. Health cannot be turned around overnight. But see

http://www.sfhealthpolicy.com/

for Sinn Feins proposals. These were recently highlighted in the party's Healthcare is a Right campaign.

[saoirse 06]

Interesting piece. And yet the government keep telling us of how much they increased spending on health, neglecting to mention that the GDP spend has increased by only 1%.

I agree with you on the Sinn Féin heath policy, it's by far the most comprehensive health strategy put forward by any party. But Unfortunatly its looking like FG will form the next goverment, which means the so-called health service is likely to get worse before it gets better. With the current crisis fine gael's 'we can do it better' is not a solution.

The current crisis in the health service is being fueled by the capitalist two-tier system, where the government is giving public money to the development of private hospitals and continuing to starve the public hospitals of much needed funding. All Fine Gael and Labour have to offer is a continuation of this.

[BarryW]

Sinn Fein recognise these problems and I would say health is one of Sinn Fein's strongest policy areas. Health cannot be turned around overnight. But see

http://www.sfhealthpolicy.com/

Factual have you even read the SF proposals?! The OECD would probably have a collective nervous breakdown if they thought there was ever a chance in hell of them being implemented.

SF's health policy is about as radical as something which was produced by the Arundel and South Downs Conservative Association.

The document as a whole produces about three concrete ideas:

- Organise health on an all-Ireland basis (surprise surprise. This phrase appears in the first paragraph of all SF policy papers)
- An air-ambulance fleet
- 12% of health budget for mental health services (FG agree with you on this one)

However, the document is totally uncosted, open-ended and airy fairy.

- Constitutional amendment to give right to healthcare (add that to the list of things the Shinners want to add to the Constitution )
- Healthcare provided, for free, on basis of need alone (so Denis O' Brien gets it for free. How's that for "equality"?!)
- Under 18s to get medical cards (so Denis O' Brien's children get medical cards)

and then we have:
- 3,000 extra beds
- all prescription charges to be dropped
- Private system to be ditched altogether ( )

.........but not a single word on how it will be paid for - other than with vague plattitudes about progressive taxation, or some other waffle that Factual would be proud of

[MichaelHennigan]

In addition to the publication of the OECD reporttoday, a European think-tank produced a report that says Ireland and Lithuania, have the worst health care in Europe.

France emerges as the 2006 winner of theEuro Health Consumer Index, "with a technically efficient and generously providing healthcare system". France scores 576 out of 750 maximum points. 2005 years winner, the Netherlands, now takes the silver position, followed by Germany. Estonia and Slovakia gets the highest ranking in the category "value for money".

In five categories, covering 28 performance indicators, Ireland scores 359 points out of a potential 750.

The survey points out that Irish waiting times are long, medical outcomes are bleak, that there is a high level of infant deaths, and a high number MRSA infections in Irish hospitals.

Ireland also fares badly in terms of patients' rights. The survey also pointed out that Ireland lacks a Patients' Ombudsman, the right to a second opinion, or an all-day telephone or web-based healthcare information service.

Putting lipstick on the pig hasn't worked and the vested interests have still to be confronted.

The Bang-for-Buck Rankings

[factual]

In addition to the publication of the OECD reporttoday, a European think-tank produced a report that says Ireland and Lithuania, have the worst health care in Europe.

France emerges as the 2006 winner of theEuro Health Consumer Index, "with a technically efficient and generously providing healthcare system". France scores 576 out of 750 maximum points. 2005 years winner, the Netherlands, now takes the silver position, followed by Germany. Estonia and Slovakia gets the highest ranking in the category "value for money".

In five categories, covering 28 performance indicators, Ireland scores 359 points out of a potential 750.

The survey points out that Irish waiting times are long, medical outcomes are bleak, that there is a high level of infant deaths, and a high number MRSA infections in Irish hospitals.

Ireland also fares badly in terms of patients' rights. The survey also pointed out that Ireland lacks a Patients' Ombudsman, the right to a second opinion, or an all-day telephone or web-based healthcare information service.

Putting lipstick on the pig hasn't worked and the vested interests have still to be confronted.

The Bang-for-Buck Rankings

Thanks for that Michael. Ireland the WORST in Europe.

It really does highlight how important an issue health is, and how much potential there is for a party like Sinn Fein to run with this issue. Maybe Sinn Fein haven't all the detals worked out but certainly they are prioritising this important issue.

Health is the most important thing we have as individuals. A society that looks after the health of its people is a good society. And if there is a bad public healthcare system, it is always the poor who suffer most.

[saoirse 06]

Sinn Fein recognise these problems and I would say health is one of Sinn Fein's strongest policy areas. Health cannot be turned around overnight. But see

http://www.sfhealthpolicy.com/

Factual have you even read the SF proposals?! The OECD would probably have a collective nervous breakdown if they thought there was ever a chance in hell of them being implemented.

SF's health policy is about as radical as something which was produced by the Arundel and South Downs Conservative Association.

The document as a whole produces about three concrete ideas:

- Organise health on an all-Ireland basis (surprise surprise. This phrase appears in the first paragraph of all SF policy papers)
- An air-ambulance fleet
- 12% of health budget for mental health services (FG agree with you on this one)

However, the document is totally uncosted, open-ended and airy fairy.

- Constitutional amendment to give right to healthcare (add that to the list of things the Shinners want to add to the Constitution )
- Healthcare provided, for free, on basis of need alone (so Denis O' Brien gets it for free. How's that for "equality"?!)
- Under 18s to get medical cards (so Denis O' Brien's children get medical cards)

and then we have:
- 3,000 extra beds
- all prescription charges to be dropped
- Private system to be ditched altogether ( )

.........but not a single word on how it will be paid for - other than with vague plattitudes about progressive taxation, or some other waffle that Factual would be proud of

I had a feeling you would come out with something like this. What part of progressive taxation do you not understand? Your thinking from a Fine Gael, capitalist viewpoint. You are also forgetting that with Sinn Féin in government, the nations resources (well the 26 - counties resources until we establish the republic) would be utilised for the benefit of the Irish people, not for the sole benefit of multinational corperations ie shell, statiol. That would mean that our oil and gas is ours and the money earned from the sale of some of this goes to providing better public services to the Irish people ie health, education. Do you know that the corrib gasfield has a potential value of 16 billion euro? The cost of running the entire health service for one year at the moment is 4 billion euro. The current capitalist system, which fine gael fully support, gives all our natural resources away while the Irish people are left to suffer with a lack-lustre health service.

[Libero]

Factual, can you tell us how you get from the observation of the system's poor value for money to the conclusion that we need to spend lots more money?

Wouldn't it be sensible and logical to address the system's inability to spend money properly before throwing lots more money into it?
Otherwise we just use up all the resources we have feeding a broken system, or so it seems to me.

[Sidewinder]

Wouldn't it be sensible and logical to address the system's inability to spend money properly before throwing lots more money into it?
Otherwise we just use up all the resources we have feeding a broken system, or so it seems to me.

Surely it's been head-slappingly obvious to everyone that that's exactly what we've been doing for the last decade?

I mean, was there anyone out there who seriously didn't know the system was a badly broken black hole? But we just kept on shovelling money into it, year after year, without any real effort at reform.

Arrrrrgh!! This stuff drives me bananas. Are our politicians really that divorced from anything approaching reality? WTF is wrong with us all? Jaysus! Health System is broken, fix it already! Stop sitting around tinkering about the edges acting busy, and endlessly hiring "consultants" to do expensive reports you fully intend to ignore!

FFS. Maybe it's the engineer in me, but the lack of delivery - or any attempt at rational analysis of the problem and design of a feasible solution, or even the beginnings of a Plan....arrrrrgh! I suppose this is what you get when you put middle-management and marketing types in charge of the whole country.

I'm gonna go watch the Brazil vs Ghana game before me head explodes

[Victoria]

Wouldn't it be sensible and logical to address the system's inability to spend money properly before throwing lots more money into it?
Otherwise we just use up all the resources we have feeding a broken system, or so it seems to me.

Surely it's been head-slappingly obvious to everyone that that's exactly what we've been doing for the last decade?

I mean, was there anyone out there who seriously didn't know the system was a badly broken black hole? But we just kept on shovelling money into it, year after year, without any real effort at reform.

Arrrrrgh!! This stuff drives me bananas. Are our politicians really that divorced from anything approaching reality? WTF is wrong with us all? Jaysus! Health System is broken, fix it already! Stop sitting around tinkering about the edges acting busy, and endlessly hiring "consultants" to do expensive reports you fully intend to ignore!

FFS. Maybe it's the engineer in me, but the lack of delivery - or any attempt at rational analysis of the problem and design of a feasible solution, or even the beginnings of a Plan....arrrrrgh! I suppose this is what you get when you put middle-management and marketing types in charge of the whole country.

I'm gonna go watch the Brazil vs Ghana game before me head explodes

Probably a very wise decision Sidewinder I have to agree that thinking of health gets me riled too. I also agree with Michael that the problem is the 'vested interests' which need to be tackled, we cannot continue to increase the spend and keep watching the service get worse.

Interesting point on the OECD report, and perhaps someone with an Economicsbackground would be able to shed some light on this, but the OECD only mentions the spend in terms of GDP, which counts a lot of money that is actually going out of the country through multi nationals etc. If the figures for GNP are used, which is a more accurate picture of the resources the country actually has, then the Irish spend is among the highest per capita in the EU. Surely this is an even bigger disgrace and one that politicians must address, if we are spending as much as some of the top countries and yeat have one of the worst services when will they realise that its time to tackle the problem head on with a root and branch reorganisation, even if it does upset consultants, nurses, managers and everybody else

[Pax]

Did you know that Irelands health spending is well below OECD averages.

It's even worse than that as we include services for children and people with mental illness etc in our figures while other countries don't, so we're spending even less.
Infrastructural spending to make up for the cutbacks on an already paltry system in the 80s -something like about 6,000 beds were cut - have taken away some of the extra day to day spend. As have paying for the same in a more expensive way, the same goes for a&es and paying outside the system home-help to routine profitable procedures farmed out to the private sector (oh yeah and private consultant reports as Sidewinder pointed out...2000 euro a day...).
And yet despite received wisdom, a lot of what we have is efficiently run and as these figures show, in comparison other nations, we are not spending enough in the right areas or in the right way such as say in a single payer universally available system of provision. Collect those areas into this and you know it just might work....