The Gay Agenda (aka Equality agenda): what's left to achieve?

[USER1234]

Now I'm not suggesting for a second that gay rights, and their getting on with their lives as they wish is such an issue. However, it does get to the point where demands become so marginal that when they are asserted stridently, well people on the fence who just aren't sure will say let's just hold on and not jump in the deep end here.

For me one such issue is gay marriage. People do love each other (i.e. relationship love) in a strong visceral sense. And most like to express such love in a visible ritual of social commitment. In one way that means homosexual couples should be given the same status as heteros. But from another perspective, having babies seems to be a pretty stressful option in today's material world. So if society chooses to give "breeders" (so to speak!) a bit of a leg up (over!!) to encourage reproduction, is it legitimate to express this as what marriage actually is, say in the reproductive interests of wider society? In such a situation, shouldn't gays be content (at least for now) with a civil union arrangement which falls short of marriage, but which gives them a recognised status?

1) Marrgae has to do with people who love each other and want to spend their lives with each other, reproduction are just an added extra!!

2) Much peer reviewed research (which is the scientifically accepted kind of research) has shown that gay people can raise healty happy children and that there sexuality does not affect the children (ie many anti gay rights groups claim that gay parents will turn there children gay, this is a blantent lie!)

3) Civil Unions are like the separate but equal laws in america that gay african americans the apperance of having rights but in truth made them second class citizens, why should people, especally gay people accept that!!!

[merle haggard]

[quote=USER1234;1715617]1)

Marrgae has to do with people who love each other and want to spend their lives with each other, reproduction are just an added extra!!

i think youll find pretty much the world over the marriage sacrament was invented solely to confer legitmacy and recognition upon human offspring in order to differentiate between mankind and the beasts in the field. In fact in many cases love was often wholly unnecessary and had absolutely nothing to do with it . May I suggest laying off the Mills and Boon .

2) Much peer reviewed research (which is the scientifically accepted kind of research) has shown that gay people can raise healty happy children and that there sexuality does not affect the children (ie many anti gay rights groups claim that gay parents will turn there children gay, this is a blantent lie!)

you mean research youve just pulled out of your hole ?

3) Civil Unions are like the separate but equal laws in america that gay african americans the apperance of having rights but in truth made them second class citizens!!

having a civil union does not mean your discriminated against . It means only that due to your gender and your partners gender its a physical impossibility for you to ever have offspring or even aspire to have offspring with one another, even by a miracle or act of God . Therefore there is and can be no offspring for there to be any legitimacy conferred upon and is therefore redundant . That is not discrimination , thats a simple recognition that a man is unable to reproduce with another man and a woman incapable of reproducing with another woman therefore the realtionship is different between that of a heterosexual couple and recognised as different .
And before you start on about sterile couples it is not and should not be a requirement of marriage for a couple to be medically tested beforehand , they at least possess the aspiration to reproduce and therefore should not be disbarred from marriage . There is no law preventing a gay man from marrying a female or vice versa . Its just a recongition that same gendered relationship is very different in nature from a dual gendered one .
A gay relationship is just different in nature from a heterosexual one although there are probably some similarities . Just deal with it and get over it .

[McDave]

1) Marrgae has to do with people who love each other and want to spend their lives with each other, reproduction are just an added extra!!

2) Much peer reviewed research (which is the scientifically accepted kind of research) has shown that gay people can raise healty happy children and that there sexuality does not affect the children (ie many anti gay rights groups claim that gay parents will turn there children gay, this is a blantent lie!)

3) Civil Unions are like the separate but equal laws in america that gay african americans the apperance of having rights but in truth made them second class citizens!!

I understand those arguments and sentiments. And I would never deny visceral feelings. But love of itself can find social acceptance in a form other than that afforded to child-rearing couples. From society's perspective, reproduction is not just an added extra. It is an irrevocable commitment to third parties (kids!) to whom society has to accord preferential treatment.

With the best will in the world, society has to ultimately look to the efficacy of keeping itself on the road (the numbers game). It sounds blunt and crude. But it isn't always easy to bring about the conditions which enable a population to sustain itself.

[merle haggard]

the human perogative and drive is quite simply survival of the species , marriage is an institution related directly to that most primal human drive . Survival of the species is much more important than love , feelings or emotions , they are only extras . The point made about earlier about children only being an extra is way way off the mark , totally in contradiction with the entire marriage ethos . The agenda of reproduction is therefore the most important human agenda and reflected as such in the ceremonies and rituals humanity in all its forms has invested in marriage from time immemorial .
The gay marriage agenda is just ideological absolutism in my opinion and not related to common sense . Ive no difficulty with gay people having their relationship acknowleged and being afforded the same protection under the law as regards inheritance , tax etc as a married couple . But they just arent the same as a heterosecual maried couple , their relationship is solely about them , those 2 people . Marriage is a different matter , its abiut humanity as a whole and a ritalised statement regarding its desire to survive as well as the mechanism by which the human race has opted for or evolved into to survive .

[Mr.De-Regulation]

the human perogative and drive is quite simply survival of the species , marriage is an institution related directly to that most primal human drive . Survival of the species is much more important than love , feelings or emotions , they are only extras . The point made about earlier about children only being an extra is way way off the mark , totally in contradiction with the entire marriage ethos . The agenda of reproduction is therefore the most important human agenda and reflected as such in the ceremonies and rituals humanity in all its forms has invested in marriage from time immemorial .
The gay marriage agenda is just ideological absolutism in my opinion and not related to common sense . Ive no difficulty with gay people having their relationship acknowleged and being afforded the same protection under the law as regards inheritance , tax etc as a married couple . But they just arent the same as a heterosecual maried couple , their relationship is solely about them , those 2 people . Marriage is a different matter , its abiut humanity as a whole and a ritalised statement regarding its desire to survive as well as the mechanism by which the human race has opted for or evolved into to survive .

Well put comrade.

[USER1234]

1) I never read Mills & Boon (Im a guy & hate romance stories!!!!)


2) Here are some of the groups you calimed i pulled from my holw:

The American Psychological Association has stated that "there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children."

Same-sex parenting is supported by the positions of a number of organizations, including the American Psychological Association, the Child Welfare League of America, the American Bar Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the North American Council on Adoptable Children, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Academy of Family Physicians.

These are all well known respected groups who support it


3) We are talking law here:
i) If hetrosexuals can have marrage buy homosexuals cant instead they get civil unions that is discrimination!

ii) This goes to the point 2, that gay people can have stable familys just like everybody else!!

iii) Your point about no law preventing a gay man from marrying a female or vice versa is just stupid, why would any gay man or woman want to marry somebody of the opposite sex that not who they are!!!


4) The human race will continue no matter if gay people are allowed to marry or not as thet will always be more people having babies (married or not!!!!)

5) Get used to the idea of gay marrage coming because this world is growing up & releasing that marrage is about two people who love each other no matter if their gay or straight!!!

[Mr.De-Regulation]

Gay people can get married. Just as long as with someone of the opposite sex.

[USER1234]

Gay people can get married. Just as long as with someone of the opposite sex.

Your comment that Gay people can get married. Just as long as with someone of the opposite sex is just stupid, why would any gay man or woman want to marry somebody of the opposite sex that not who they are!!!

Originally Posted by McDave
I understand those arguments and sentiments. And I would never deny visceral feelings. But love of itself can find social acceptance in a form other than that afforded to child-rearing couples. From society's perspective, reproduction is not just an added extra. It is an irrevocable commitment to third parties (kids!) to whom society has to accord preferential treatment.

With the best will in the world, society has to ultimately look to the efficacy of keeping itself on the road (the numbers game). It sounds blunt and crude. But it isn't always easy to bring about the conditions which enable a population to sustain itself.

That the thing though!!!

Marrage is not the only way in this day & age that people have babies and there will never come a day when people will stop having children throught the many ways it's possible!!

Gay people have babies too by the way!!!!

[Mr.De-Regulation]

Your comment that Gay people can get married. Just as long as with someone of the opposite sex is just stupid, why would any gay man or woman want to marry somebody of the opposite sex that not who they are!!!

Why do most people get married? Money.

That the thing though!!!

Marrage is not the only way in this day & age that people have babies and there will never come a day when people will stop having children throught the many ways it's possible!!

Gay people have babies too by the way!!!!

Only with people of the opposite sex.

[USER1234]

Why do most people get married? Money.

Im sorry you feel that way Mr.De-Regulation, it a very sinical view of the world!!!

Only with people of the opposite sex.

No, there are many ways women can get pregent, it does not have to mean they have sex with a man!!!