Young children treated for self harm - shocking

[cakeordeath]

Irish Times
Young children treated for self harm
Thursday, May 7, 2009

Young children treated for self harm - The Irish Times - Thu, May 07, 2009


SOME 112 children had to be treated for deliberate self harm at Our Lady’s Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin, Dublin, over a five-year period, a new study indicates.

The children, who ranged from eight years upwards, were treated at the hospital between the years 2000 and 2005.

They have now been part of a follow-up study to see how they fared and while most of them were lost to follow-up, the parents or guardians of 39 of them agreed to take part, as did 10 of the children themselves.

The results from this small group indicate that one in five of the children made a repeat suicide attempt and one in 10 had repeated the attempt more than once. Those repeating the attempts were all girls.

Doctors had noted that 80 per cent of all the first suicide attempts were impulsive in nature but the authors of the follow-up study, published in the latest edition of the Irish Medical Journal, note the level of suicide risk as rated by the clinician at the time of first presentation at the emergency department as a result of deliberate self harm was not predictive of repeat deliberate self harm, with those rated as low suicide risk at the first episode just as likely to repeat as those rated high risk.

Therefore even those deemed to be at low risk at index episode are at risk of repetition and require thorough assessment and follow-up,” they said.




What is happening to our children? 8 years old???...Good grief!!!

[MsAnneThrope]

It is shocking and very sad. I wonder how much abuse is going on that is causing these children to do this? Whether it is by a parent or relative or family friend, or bullying in the school, each suicide attempt should be investigated thoroughly.

Speaking of young children I was reading an article in a Munster newspaper I get where children 12 years old and younger (one is younger than 10) are being treated for heroin addiction:

Child (10) battles heroin addiction

There may very well be a connection in some cases where drug abuse or addiction is playing a part in the self-harm and suicide attempts you referenced above.

What has our country become?

[cakeordeath]

It is shocking and very sad. I wonder how much abuse is going on that is causing these children to do this? Whether it is by a parent or relative or family friend, or bullying in the school, each suicide attempt should be investigated thoroughly.

Speaking of young children I was reading an article in a Munster newspaper I get where children 12 years old and younger (one is younger than 10) are being treated for heroin addiction:

Child (10) battles heroin addiction

There may very well be a connection in some cases where drug abuse or addiction is playing a part in the self-harm and suicide attempts you referenced above.

What has our country become?

My apologies first off for not being able to highlight, select or put in bold etc any of the above. None of my functions are working...anyone else?

MsAnneThrope it is shocking! I'm stunned at the age group. 8, 10, 12 year olds??? What's going on?

I was listening to Montcrieff on Newstalk about half an hour ago ( driving and didn't catch it all). Hope someone else did.

A lady from Univ. of Scotland I believe talking about self esteem in children.

New research shows that it is NOT the most important thing for a child.

The USA pushed it about 30 years ago and are discovering that it led to a culture of entitlement in children. They are now back-tracking.

The emphasis now is on merit, working towards the goal.

Self esteem causes the child to look inward and this inward looking leads to self examination etc... 'Believe in yourself' speak, 'you DESERVE it' -speak and if the child doesn't get, well then there's a sense of failure.

Too much self examination, looks, clothes etc...... anyone else catch it?

Montcrieff talked about twitter, bebo, facebook and it's effect too.

[MsAnneThrope]

I didn't hear Moncrieff so I missed that program. Self-esteem, merit, whatever else they come up with, it all just boils down to parenting in my view. If children are slashing their wrists and injecting heroin then there is a serious problem and we need to look to the parents. If they are unfit for the job then the children must be taken out of that environment and into state or foster care, especially if drugs are on the scene in full view of and accessible to the children. Otherwise they have zero chance of a decent future and our own Baby P cases, whether they be 3 or 12 years old, are imminent.

If a parent is faced with the prospect of having his/her child(ren) taken away - and of course all the childcare benefits - then it will give them good reason to clean up their act and seek help where available. Both the parents and the child (and society) benefit. If they're not willing to do this then they're just not suitable to be parents. Alcohol abuse is a massive, massive factor in many of these sad cases in Ireland yet the Government and the HSE continue to bury their heads in the sand on the issue. Throw drugs into the mix and it is a time-bomb.

We owe it as a society to give these children a second chance where currently they have none.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I've been wondering for some time about this kind of thing and also the spike in suicides among young men in Ireland.

I think its a kind of 'managing expectation' problem. Young men took what they could see from the media was apparent success all around them and started to feel as if they were failing in life because they didn't have enough money to buy/build a house and of course Ireland is one of those countries where there is a high house-purchase rate rather than places like France or Germany where renting is not at all unusual and better regulated.

Young men in a culture like our will feel like they've failed very quickly if they can't do the things that society is telling them they should be doing.

Going back to young kids I think its almost the same- they see perfect kids and families on the TV beamed at them by advertisers and they feel weak or 'wrong' in comparison. Kids are comparing themselves to impossible standards in terms of body image and perceptions of attainment in the age group above them and in their peer group and start to despise themselves.

Answer? We need to find ways of telling both groups that it is alright and perfectly fine to be yourself. They need to be educated to understand the power of the impossible standards set by fiction from the jukebox in the corner of the sitting room...

Any psychologists available on this one..?

[code twinkle]

My apologies first off for not being able to highlight, select or put in bold etc any of the above. None of my functions are working...anyone else?

MsAnneThrope it is shocking! I'm stunned at the age group. 8, 10, 12 year olds??? What's going on?

I was listening to Montcrieff on Newstalk about half an hour ago ( driving and didn't catch it all). Hope someone else did.

A lady from Univ. of Scotland I believe talking about self esteem in children.

New research shows that it is NOT the most important thing for a child.

The USA pushed it about 30 years ago and are discovering that it led to a culture of entitlement in children. They are now back-tracking.

The emphasis now is on merit, working towards the goal.

Self esteem causes the child to look inward and this inward looking leads to self examination etc... 'Believe in yourself' speak, 'you DESERVE it' -speak and if the child doesn't get, well then there's a sense of failure.

Too much self examination, looks, clothes etc...... anyone else catch it?

Montcrieff talked about twitter, bebo, facebook and it's effect too.

I was listening to this aswell but I think the studies in the USA were misreported by this woman. There has been a rise in the USA of "narcissism" which is sometimes called "insecure self-esteem" but this term is misleading because in the studies it was compared with "genuine self-esteem" which is what we all would have hoped we were fostering in our kids. Essentially the narcissism is not self-esteem, and self-esteem is not the cause of many of the problems kids are facing these days.

High self-esteem still is associated with positive outcomes such as confidence, happiness, ability to take criticism and an ability to make friends.

The studies tracking the rise of narcissism among kids in America point to a cause known as 'social evaluative threat'. They say these threats arise from increased circumstances in societal daily life where our self worth is judged by outsiders, and there are increased instances of public comparative 'tests' - eg. where in general, social status is valued more highly, there are less opportunities for a support network of close friends, and there is stress in early life.

I personally am convinced that these things are caused by greater societal inequality leading to a lower sense of community, greater gaps between income categories, increased pressure on the poorest class, lack of social trust.

But I would be interested in hearing other people's thoughts?

[MsAnneThrope]

Hi CaptainCon. While I think a perceived lack of material wealth compared to others may be cause for despair and a lowered self-esteem for some people, I don't think it's enough to drive them - child or adult - to commit or attempt suicide, or inflict serious self harm. Alcohol and/or drugs certainly play a key role in an adult's decision, but alarmingly we're seeing the same substance abuse in younger children now.

Where substance abuse is not present in a self-harming or suicidal child then it is a major cry for help. It may be an early mental illness but usually violence and/or sexual abuse or extreme bullying is going on. I don't think any child is going to try commit suicide because he/she can't go on the school tour, or doesn't have the latest Nintendo game.

I agree it would be great to get the thoughts of a qualified pyschologist.

[code twinkle]

I've been wondering for some time about this kind of thing and also the spike in suicides among young men in Ireland.

I think its a kind of 'managing expectation' problem. Young men took what they could see from the media was apparent success all around them and started to feel as if they were failing in life because they didn't have enough money to buy/build a house and of course Ireland is one of those countries where there is a high house-purchase rate rather than places like France or Germany where renting is not at all unusual and better regulated.

Young men in a culture like our will feel like they've failed very quickly if they can't do the things that society is telling them they should be doing.

Going back to young kids I think its almost the same- they see perfect kids and families on the TV beamed at them by advertisers and they feel weak or 'wrong' in comparison. Kids are comparing themselves to impossible standards in terms of body image and perceptions of attainment in the age group above them and in their peer group and start to despise themselves.

Answer? We need to find ways of telling both groups that it is alright and perfectly fine to be yourself. They need to be educated to understand the power of the impossible standards set by fiction from the jukebox in the corner of the sitting room...

Any psychologists available on this one..?

I would totally agree - especially re the young men being vulnerable to loss of face and a feeling of powerlessness. If you look at stats on things like young male violence, and things like suicide levels, general mental health among children and adults and levels of consumerism, you can see the (deeply economically divided) USA scores badly and places with greater income equality like Sweden and Norway score much better. What you think? Might it be a factor?

[drzhivago]

I really think some of the psychobabble around this is causing some of the problem

This year some new world reknowned scientist will publish a theory completely contradicting the last and will get coverage for a period of time

FACT--children do not get the chance to be children any more, they grow up too fast

In modern society you cant be unhappy with your lot, you must either be depressed, seriously depressed or committable

Kids need time and space to be kids, they need time to forge their own relationships, have fights, make friends lose friends, win, lose, get cut, break bones but above all they need the time to do this by themselves and not be forced into trying to live the life their parents wished they had as children

[asset test]

Sadly I have personal experience of a person self harming. Young, 18 years old, successful at school etc. Enters Med College and goes barmy after that. Don't know if it was beyond that person's capability or what. Nevertheless, committal to a Psychiatric Hospital resulted, self harm ongoing, Parents frantic with worry etc.

Now let me say that the parents in this case genuinely, and I know this, did not care what the child did after Leaving Cert, as long as they were happy. Some might not believe this, but I observed, and know this to be true. The family is ordinary working/middle class, no connections with academia etc.

However, the child is suffering badly now, and no one can seem to get to the cause. Was it peer pressure, that could not be realised?

Are expectations far too high for kids now? Points in the LC, passing Driving Test, doing the gap year etc. etc. I don't know. I just think something is going wrong for SOME kids anyway.

And I agree so much with DR Z, kids need to be kids. Too many have had to go to institutionalised settings in the past, creches, childminders etc. maybe that's where the real competitiveness started. I do not know. And the fear of allowing kids to play in the street, has led to over protectiveness, so now kids play in supervised groups GAA, Soccer, Dancing, Ballet, etc. The rawness of the street taught me a lot, I don't know if it is the same now or in the last 10 years.