Wave of debt related suicide

[drkpower]

The OP referred to specific cases he'd read in the media. He said 'THESE CASES'. That's a direct reference. He even provided information about how the cases were reported. They are big property developers.
How retarded are you?

The phrase "THESE CASES", with no links, is a "direct reference"............!!!!!!!

Great analysis!!!!!!

As I said earlier, I know of other similarly reported cases that related to (very) small businessman.
And I have no doubt that the cases you are aware of relate solely to big businessmen. But that does not mean that the cases to which the OP referred were to big businessmen.

Your inability to see the fundamental error in your original post is embarrassing.
If only you had clarified your position at the outset, you wouldnt have had to embarrass yourself further.

Will I get more negative rep for this post?

[JCSkinner]

The phrase "THESE CASES", with no links, is a "direct reference"............!!!!!!!

Great analysis!!!!!!

As I said earlier, I know of other similarly reported cases that related to (very) small businessman.

Where they were described as 'tragic accidents'? Name one.

And I have no doubt that the cases you are aware of relate solely to big businessmen. But that does not mean that the cases to which the OP referred were to big businessmen.

It does because he cited how they were reported. You must be remedial.

Your inability to see the fundamental error in your original post is embarrassing.

You remain wrong. Insisting otherwise merely embarrasses yourself. But keep going. It's entertaining, and some welcome light relief from contemplating the current suicide rate.

If only you had clarified your position at the outset, you wouldnt have had to embarrass yourself further.

My 'position' is clear to everyone bar you.

Will I get more negative rep for this post?

Only if you keep misrepresenting the facts.

[drkpower]

Where they were described as 'tragic accidents'? Name one.

So a reference to "these cases" and to them being reported as "tragic accidents" are "direct references" to the specific cases that are in your mind.......

I'm not going to name any specific case - like the OP, I think its insensitive to name cases or post links in these cases - even to you, that should seem fairly reasonable and logical and callling on me to "name one" is a little juvenile in that context.

Suffice it to say that cases of suicide have been reported as "tragic accidents" (and similar phrases) for years and years. There are good reasons why. Just because you know of a few high profile recent ones that relate to big businessmen does not mean that all of them do.

I see that your new tactic, instead of negative repping, is to call me remedial or a retard........ incisive......!!!

[JCSkinner]

So a reference to "these cases" and to them being reported as "tragic accidents" are "direct references" to the specific cases that are in your mind.......

Not in my mind. In reality.

I'm not going to name any specific case - like the OP, I think its insensitive to name cases or post links in these cases - even to you, that should seem fairly reasonable and logical and callling on me to "name one" is a little juvenile in that context.

You could send it to me by PM. I was able to identify one of the cases he referred to for you without placing the name on the board.

Suffice it to say that cases of suicide have been reported as "tragic accidents" (and similar phrases) for years and years.

Actually, it isn't sufficient to say that. Because it's not actually true. And I know because I once worked with the Samaritans on a project to monitor media reporting of suicide.

There are good reasons why. Just because you know of a few high profile recent ones that relate to big businessmen does not mean that all of them do.

But the ones referred to in the original post do.

I see that your new tactic, instead of negative repping, is to call me remedial or a retard........ incisive......!!!

And yet you seem intent on proving that to be the case.

[drkpower]

Actually, it isn't sufficient to say that. Because it's not actually true. And I know because I once worked with the Samaritans on a project to monitor media reporting of suicide.

It certainly is true. I have attended Coroners Inquests in a professional capacity for years and suicides have often been referred to as "tragic accidents" or similar vague terms prior to the Inquest by both the media and the Gardai. The reasoning is obvious. I wont accuse you of lying but you most certainly are incorrect.

Im not going to post in public or private the names of such people. Again, I wont criticise you for PMing me the name of one such incidence because the person was in the public eye, but personally I dont think its appropriate.

You continually refer to the cases referred to in the OP's post; this displays your fundamental problem. The OP did not refer to any specific cases. You extrapolated from the information in the OP's post that he/she referred to the cases that you are aware of. That is a flawed analysis. And all the name caling and negative repping will not change that.

[JCSkinner]

It certainly is true. I have attended Coroners Inquests in a professional capacity for years and suicides have often been referred to as "tragic accidents" or similar vague terms prior to the Inquest by both the media and the Gardai. The reasoning is obvious. I wont accuse you of lying but you most certainly are incorrect.

Actually you're incorrect, yet again.
Until the advent of the Aware guidelines on suicide reporting put together with the NUJ, and the Samaritans guidelines that preceded them, the media habitually referred to suicides as simply that - suicide. Despite the guidelines, they all too often still do. It's still a very live issue:
cearta.ie » Ethical reporting of suicide

Im not going to post in public or private the names of such people.

You cited examples of the media reporting the suicides of small businessmen in Ireland recently, referring to them as tragic accidents. There is nothing stopping you from proving that you are not lying in that regard by PMing me a single example. I would be happy to forward any such instance to the Press Council, the NUJ and the HSE. Unless, of course, you made that up.

Again, I wont criticise you for PMing me the name of one such incidence because the person was in the public eye, but personally I dont think its appropriate.

It would be inappropriate to put them on open forum. But it is not inappropriate for you to substantiate your position by private mail. At this point in the discussion, it is incumbent on you to do so to retain any credibility.

You continually refer to the cases referred to in the OP's post; this displays your fundamental problem. The OP did not refer to any specific cases. You extrapolated from the information in the OP's post that he/she referred to the cases that you are aware of. That is a flawed analysis. And all the name caling and negative repping will not change that.

On the contrary, it is quite clear which cases the OP referred to, because there have only been two cases that fit the bill in recent times.
You remain wrong, and you're still embarrassing yourself.

[drkpower]

Actually you're incorrect, yet again.
.... it is incumbent on you to do so to retain any credibility.
On the contrary, it is quite clear which cases the OP referred to, because there have only been two cases that fit the bill in recent times.
You remain wrong, and you're still embarrassing yourself.

You cite some blog to support your contention......I'll stick to my own professional experience in the legal and medical fields over many years, thanks.....

You genuinely think its appropriate for me to privately send you the name of private citizens who have recently committed suicide? Think about that and how crass it is.

It is quite clear to you who the OP referred to; that is different to who the OP actually referred to. You misquoted the OP in your first post, you continue to do so and you criticise me for calling you on it.

[seabhcan]

To be honest, I just don't know. I mean, how would this operate? I'm not trying to be funny when I say this. But would you envisage a therapist turning up with the bailiff?

Might not be the worst idea.

[seabhcan]

Good article on this today: Island of Ireland's tragic owner will miss day in the sun - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

"I am not saying all banks, but definitely some of the banks are being overly aggressive and unfairly so in certain instances. They have looked after only a select few," Gerald Kean told me yesterday.

"From my experience, there have many cases in recent times where certain banks have put undue and frankly unnecessary pressure on customers in relation to their loan facilities. Some of their practices beggar belief. "

In truth, nobody will ever know with any certainty the real reason why this gregarious, lovely man John O'Dolan decided to take his own life on Friday morning. There is a lot of speculation linking his death to the recession, but at the end of the day we can only guess the degree of loneliness and overwhelming desperation that John felt to leave his family and wife behind in this tragic way.

You begin to wonder about the disconnect that has happened in Ireland during the recession. What happens to the people who saw themselves in the context of the enormous success they achieved when that success goes? Did they forget the sum total of who they were wasn't just their success

And did the Celtic Tiger so distort our self image as a nation that we no longer saw or valued defining aspects other than success? Did it leave our resilience fatally weakened to the extent that we are left especially vulnerable?

Whatever the answers, I sadly doubt that John O'Dolan will be the last victim of the recession.

[slx]

I keep hearing stories of Irish business people, developers etc who are taking their own lives in the face of debt and bankruptcy. It seems to me like a shockingly high number of people. These cases seem to be reported in the press as "tragic accidents", presumably at the request of the families, so I won't link to any specific cases I know off.

Can anything be done, reasonably, to provide these people with the professional help they need? When the state has to cull a farmer's cattle they will often take his gun incase he makes a rash decision, such is the emotional strain. Having your business face collapse or your property repossessed can be equally tramatic. Should the banks, who are at the front line on this, have councillors on call (or do they already?)

I'd just like to point out that it's normal policy in most media outlets in Ireland not to report suicides. It's just not done, particularly in broadcast media outlets. I am fairly sure that the same kind of editorial policies apply in the newspapers.

That being said, the problem is very serious and needs attention. General coverage of the problem would certainly be welcome, it could be done with out naming individuals.