Should we have an Amnesty for Social Welfare Fraud?

[Question R24U]

Almost ?½ billion saved through social welfare fraud crackdown2009Press ReleasesPress OfficeThe Department of Social and Family Affairs

Almost half a billion was saved by having a crackdown on fraud last year. The standard garda rule of thumb (for drug cases) is that amount detected is about 10% of total.

Given that over the last few years, one did not have to attend a Post Office to claim social welfare, but simply establish a bank account - the possibility of fraud is hardly beyond the means of most.

But in fairness, receipients must be given an opportunity to come clean and pay up, rather than be prosescuted (like tax amnesties).

So I propose:
- send a notice to every household of the amnesty.
- abolish distinction for jobseekers benefit/allowance, carers allowance, disability, back to education etc and replace with One Basic Payment (to reduce admin. costs)
- require (over 12 months rolling basis say using DOB's) every recipient to re-apply in person and with photo ID and waive date protection issues.
- employ temporary staff to sift through each application and cross-reference with Revenue, PRTB, HSE etc.
- prosecute, require to pay back, deport or jail (no more than a few weeks) anyone found to have been defrauding but didn't avail of the amnesty.


If it is good enough for tax-dodgers, the other end of the scale should be given a chance.

It might raise a bob or two as well.

[zakalwe1]

not sure if it'll work, but in principle i have no problem with it.

if millionaires with offshore accounts are allowed an amnesty then why not welfare scammers.

[cakeordeath]

Great idea. Everyone knows someone now who is either claiming Disability and is not disabled, a single mother but not REALLY single, unemployed but working cash-in-hand.

Why should Social Welfare Fraud be any different to any other. And if you've nothing to worry about,You've nothing to worry about.Great.

[Question R24U]

The informer is alive and well in Irish society...

'Last year 1,044 reports were received from members of the public, an increase of 70% on the previous year. Each and every case reported to the Department is investigated. And all reports made by the public are dealt with in a confidential manner, reports given anonymously are also fully investigated

...and in the context of a €20bn or so deficit and service cuts, they should be encouraged.

[kmk]

Absolutly, There are also those that fly in once a month to sigh on. Flights now so cheap people are now living & most likely working in another country & flying back once a month to sign. There is no real check up on the system. Too easy to cheat.....

[atlantic]

If they are flying in once a month could they not have some passport security system linked from the airport to the ss office .

Absolutly, There are also those that fly in once a month to sigh on. Flights now so cheap people are now living & most likely working in another country & flying back once a month to sign. There is no real check up on the system. Too easy to cheat.....

[kmk]

But this is all more admin to an already overrun department..I still think that some people on the dole should work in SW department,collecting the signatures and get the so called "qualified Civil Servants" out checking up on fraudsters etc...

[Andrew49]

Question R24U wrote:

Almost half a billion was saved by having a crackdown on fraud last year

Isn't it great what you can do with a bunch of figures!

564,354 social welfare claims were reviewed in the past year through fraud
control measures.

Almost €476 million in Social Welfare payments was saved through fraud
control measures.

328 cases were finalised in court!

Were 328 people responsible for defrauding €476 million in Social Welfare payments ?

This would mean that each of these 328 people received €1,451,219 and 51 cents fraudently from Social Welfare ... at least.

Not mentioned in this report is the fact that people 'cut-off' from receiving Social Welfare payments during fraud control measures receive Supplementary Welfare Allowance while the fraud control measures run their course. If a snapshot of Social Welfare was taken during these fraud control measures the Dept. would be able to show that it is running a very strict regime and you'd expect them to put their own spin on the figures. Not in the figures - but it can be implied - is that 99% of the people who were forced onto Supplementary Welfare allowance were reinstated to their original entitlements.

However it appears from the above figures that very little fraud was found. Of course if banks were to engage in jiggery-pokery, say by depositing billions in another bank to boost the deposit base of a bank in trouble, we would say that someone was trying to pull the wool over our eyes!

Heaven forbid that Mary Hanafin, Fianna Fail, would engage in jiggery-pokery of that kind!

[anewbeginning]

Question R24U wrote: Isn't it great what you can do with a bunch of figures!

564,354 social welfare claims were reviewed in the past year through fraud
control measures.

Almost €476 million in Social Welfare payments was saved through fraud
control measures.

328 cases were finalised in court!

Were 328 people responsible for defrauding €476 million in Social Welfare payments ?

This would mean that each of these 328 people received €1,451,219 and 51 cents fraudently from Social Welfare ... at least.

Not mentioned in this report is the fact that people 'cut-off' from receiving Social Welfare payments during fraud control measures receive Supplementary Welfare Allowance while the fraud control measures run their course. If a snapshot of Social Welfare was taken during these fraud control measures the Dept. would be able to show that it is running a very strict regime and you'd expect them to put their own spin on the figures. Not in the figures - but it can be implied - is that 99% of the people who were forced onto Supplementary Welfare allowance were reinstated to their original entitlements.

However it appears from the above figures that very little fraud was found. Of course if banks were to engage in jiggery-pokery, say by depositing billions in another bank to boost the deposit base of a bank in trouble, we would say that someone was trying to pull the wool over our eyes!

Heaven forbid that Mary Hanafin, Fianna Fail, would engage in jiggery-pokery of that kind!

I would imagine the threat of court proceedings as well as complete withdrawal of social welfare and having to pay back what you owed is enough for most people to settle out of court.

I'm pretty sure what happens is a letter is sent to the fraudulent claimer telling them what they have to pay back and an arrangement is made. Only the hardened fraudsters go to court.

What I really want to see is an end to the situation where people fly in from different parts of the world, collect their social welfare payments, and fly out again that same day. Is anything been done to tackle this racket? And no its not the imagination of a neo nazi that this is happening, of course I have a feeling some idiot will call me a nazi because I question that kind of fraud.

[Odyessus]

I would imagine the threat of court proceedings as well as complete withdrawal of social welfare and having to pay back what you owed is enough for most people to settle out of court.

I'm pretty sure what happens is a letter is sent to the fraudulent claimer telling them what they have to pay back and an arrangement is made. Only the hardened fraudsters go to court.

What I really want to see is an end to the situation where people fly in from different parts of the world, collect their social welfare payments, and fly out again that same day. Is anything been done to tackle this racket? And no its not the imagination of a neo nazi that this is happening, of course I have a feeling some idiot will call me a nazi because I question that kind of fraud.

People could be sent letters to their registered addresses, calling them in to sign on at random times, at two days notice.