For people who are involuntarily detained on mental health grounds the options to speak up for themselves are heavily limited for obvious reasons but while the person themselves may not be in a position to assert their rights, there is surely an onus on the systems in place to provide protections to their rights and enusre best practice for involuntary admissions to psychiatric hospitals. There's been some toing and froing between the Irish hospital consultants association and the mental health commission (especially in the IT letters page) with talk of bringing in psychiatrists from outside the state and the chronic historic underfunding of the mental health services. It is an important issue but surely not one that needs years to bring to fruition and energies spent would surely be of greater benefit in the long run being spent on reversing the falling percentage of the health budget going to mental health and ensuring that practitioners have the funding they need to do all they can for patients and reach the people who don't know to seek help.

A very interesting post. An overhaul of the system is long overdue as is our entire view of mental health. Depression can affect 1 in 3 people, yet all people here is 'nutter', 'looney' or 'wacko' whenever mental health is brought up. Depression itself can be caused almost entirely by physical reasons, but most enlightened people in Ireland see it as whinging, feeling sorry for themselves or both.

Anyway, I digress. I agree with what is being put forward above as the current situation is a bit of a shambles and I have deep sympathy with what is probably a larger number of Irish citizens in institutions than you'd think who's only problem is the fact that they are in the institution to begin with.

Watch out, as its only a matter of time before this sleeping scandal is blown wide open.

Depression itself can be caused almost entirely by physical reasons, but most enlightened people in Ireland see it as whinging, feeling sorry for themselves or both.

Do you mean to put "enlightened" as a sarcastic use or are you implying that depression not casued by physical difficulties is whinging/feeling sorry for themselves or both?

It is a matter of fact that there is major debate within medicine and psychiatry over the role of so-called 'non-clinical' depression.
In Ireland there is a Limerick GP who has extensively campaigned for a radical overhaul of the mental health services, who also argues that most depression is emotionally, not psychologically caused, and thus should not be considered a mental illness requiring medical treatment.

It is a matter of fact that there is major debate within medicine and psychiatry over the role of so-called 'non-clinical' depression.
In Ireland there is a Limerick GP who has extensively campaigned for a radical overhaul of the mental health services, who also argues that most depression is emotionally, not psychologically caused, and thus should not be considered a mental illness requiring medical treatment.

We'll see if the new mental health policy document can get to an agreed point with the new strategy due out by now but delayed.
http://www.mentalhealthpolicy.ie/about_us/

The crucial phase coming up now is the Estimates and tagged on then is budget day where between them we see if there is serious money put aside to implement the new strategy along with suicide prevention measures.
Things moving along perhaps
http://www.mhcirl.ie/tribunals.htm

We need to have a real debate on this issue. Unfortunately it is not being placed on the political agenda in the way it should.

Originally Posted by crosswind

Depression itself can be caused almost entirely by physical reasons, but most enlightened people in Ireland see it as whinging, feeling sorry for themselves or both.

Do you mean to put "enlightened" as a sarcastic use or are you implying that depression not casued by physical difficulties is whinging/feeling sorry for themselves or both?

I meant it in a sarcastic way - the point I was making was that even though all depression can be devastating and acutely painful for those it affects, people seem to think its all 'in their head' as if the lack of physical symptoms/causes somehow detracts from the condition - most people dont seem to realise that its a condition with multiple causes including physical anomalies in brain chemistry (so I believe anyway). I was making the point that even if people seem to think its 'all in their head' sometimes, its not just a psychological but physiological. I admit I am wrong for trying to suggest that one could be more 'valid' an illness than the other, but its the ignorant I was preaching to, so I apologise.

I am an avid supporter of depression charities and causes (and I admit its for selfish reasons due to having family members suffer from it) and I know of a case of a relative who was incarcerated for over 2 years because he had trouble with coping with stress!

I meant it in a sarcastic way

just checking :wink:

the point I was making was that even though all depression can be devastating and acutely painful for those it affects, people seem to think its all 'in their head' as if the lack of physical symptoms/causes somehow detracts from the condition

That is a serious problem in people's perception, see a cast for a broken leg and people can understand the pain and reduced mobility, but with depression there is still a great deal of ignorance of what that means, even when the symptoms are affecting the individual themselves. It's why education as well as investment in a wide-ranging mental health service is so important.

The dispute over the establishment of the mental health tribunals seems to be going nowhere. pay increases are being threatened and a boycott is hampering the establishment of the tribunals. What's needed is a bit of leadership to get things moving, someone to kickstart things or someone to honourably give ground. For years mental health has been looked down upon as a lesser area of the health services, this dispute does nothing to improve that perception. It does require change and that change is not going to be easy for those affected, but at the end of the day this is about the patient and his/her rights so the impreative is there to get this done. A nice pre christmas present.

The health research board released some figures for inpatient admissions to psychiatric hospitals. We still have an 11% involuntary admission rate and variations in that rate around the country so it is important that the mental health tribunals get the backing they need and that there are sufficient measures taken to ensure that the extra workload is planned for. The steady long trend reduction in admissions described in the report would be welcome if the money saved was going into a comprehensive community care network and while no doubt improvement in that area has occured, the steady reduction in the proportion of health spending going on mental health speaks volumes about the reality for mental health services funding.