Harney "serious health cutbacks inevitable"

[Gimpanzee]

Why, so as to avoid the truth?

Ok, here is a compromise.... so leave out the last line and humour me with your review of the text above it.

Fair enough, seeing as it is the season of good will and all that, I just did. If you think that the fact that Mary Harney's husband is in the Healthcare business is the reason people are on trolleys in A&E, then that is nothing short of delusional. No more than Pauli, you're intent on finding a problem where the answer is blaming Mary Harney. Thing is the problem in the health service is far, far bigger than Mary, and that's not being smart. Local and national politicians, the IMO, HSE, Drumm, unions etc.. all to blame.

[Pauli]

3 questions
1)what would happen the people who work for the HSE?
2)what would replace it?
3)if Harney disbanded it what would you say? Its not like she is ideologically tied to very large government bureaucracies now is it?

1. They would go back to the Health Boards from whence they came before the HSE was formed as an overlaying level of pointless bureaucracy and waste.

2. A return to the health boards but minus the political interference and a statutory rule on accountability for a voted budget, shortfalls to be made up by the Department of Health accountable to the Dail.

3. Why would Harney disband something which serves her so well in functioning as yet another barrier between her and real accountability? She loves the HSE, if only to deflect the blame for her crass incompetence.

[Gimpanzee]

1. They would go back to the Health Boards from whence they came before the HSE was formed as an overlaying level of pointless bureaucracy and waste.

2. A return to the health boards but minus the political interference and a statutory rule on accountability for a voted budget, shortfalls to be made up by the Department of Health accountable to the Dail.

3. Why would Harney disband something which serves her so well in functioning as yet another barrier between her and real accountability? She loves the HSE, if only to deflect the blame for her crass incompetence.

Thanks Pauli - the Health boards were a disaster, just a series of smaller disasters than the HSE (except for the North East) . And even still, going back to that is not an option - we don't have a rewind button to get back to a bad system.

But the most worrying thing is that you seem to believe that everyone who is currently employed in a the current disaster of the health system should be retained - except Mary Harney.

[Pauli]

Thanks Pauli - the Health boards were a disaster, just a series of smaller disasters than the HSE (except for the North East) . And even still, going back to that is not an option - we don't have a rewind button to get back to a bad system.

But the most worrying thing is that you seem to believe that everyone who is currently employed in a the current disaster of the health system should be retained - except Mary Harney.

No I don't. I believe that a functioning health service needs to be locally accountable to the community it serves free of political interference. Add budgetary accountability and get people to take responsibility for the entire service in their local community and you have the basis of a functioning system. It works where I live.
Harney is a fatally flawed politician who has no mandate to be in the Cabinet. She is only there thanks to the moral cowardice of FF. She continues to be part of one of the most blatant conflict of interest in Irish public life, a conflict of interest which no civilised country should have to endure.

[The OD]

I think we should look at how much oxygen is being wasted around the cabinet table?

At least 6 or 7 lungs worth there that no one would really miss?

I recommend we cut off oxygen supply to these immediately, we would save the nation a fortune and might also reduce emmissions, I'm sure the Greens would go with this one?

[Gimpanzee]

No I don't. I believe that a functioning health service needs to be locally accountable to the community it serves free of political interference. Add budgetary accountability and get people to take responsibility for the entire service in their local community and you have the basis of a functioning system. It works where I live.
Harney is a fatally flawed politician who has no mandate to be in the Cabinet. She is only there thanks to the moral cowardice of FF. She continues to be part of one of the most blatant conflict of interest in Irish public life, a conflict of interest which no civilised country should have to endure.

Where you live is not here. Would the electorate where you are have had Charlie, Bertie, Willie O'Dea, Martin Cullen and the Flynn Family in power for the vast majority of its recent history? I'm assuming it is Germany - what I'd give to have had Helmut Kohl and his cronies instead of what we got. Harney hasn't hoodwinked people, and in fairness, neither have FF. The electorate vote for them because they think like them - its all clientism and looking after individuals. And they are the same people employed in the Health service (and indeed every other organisation). The common good takes second place to the interest of small interest groups. No tinkering with systems will change that fact - that is the culture here, and that is where the starting place for any fundamental reform has got to begin.

And Mary Harney doesn't need a mandate to be in the cabinet - she doesn't even have to be elected to the Oireachtas to serve as Health Minister. If you have a problem with her being there, then blame Brian Cowen and his 'moral cowardice' as you put it for not wanting a FF'er to be in the hot seat.

[Pauli]

Where you live is not here. Would the electorate where you are have had Charlie, Bertie, Willie O'Dea, Martin Cullen and the Flynn Family in power for the vast majority of its recent history? I'm assuming it is Germany - what I'd give to have had Helmut Kohl and his cronies instead of what we got. Harney hasn't hoodwinked people, and in fairness, neither have FF. The electorate vote for them because they think like them - its all clientism and looking after individuals. And they are the same people employed in the Health service (and indeed every other organisation). The common good takes second place to the interest of small interest groups. No tinkering with systems will change that fact - that is the culture here, and that is where the starting place for any fundamental reform has got to begin.

And Mary Harney doesn't need a mandate to be in the cabinet - she doesn't even have to be elected to the Oireachtas to serve as Health Minister. If you have a problem with her being there, then blame Brian Cowen and his 'moral cowardice' as you put it for not wanting a FF'er to be in the hot seat.

It's Switzerland, actually, and the system works fine. My mother is to have 2 scheduled operations next year. She will be coming here for them. Believe it or not, the hospitals last summer were actually looking for patients.

[gerfinch]

Found this:
Doctoryblog’s Blog
A summary of the effect of the cutbacks on junior doctors working in ireland by one of them . Quite scary reading.