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  1. #1581
    Pizza Man Pizza Man is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by StarryPlough01 View Post
    I think women have now lost all confidence in your free service. You can stick that as far as I'm concerned.
    Isn't it a tad arrogant of you to imagine that every Irish women is as stupid as you are? Sure, some are, but they're probably a very small minority.
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  2. #1582
    Noble Guardian Noble Guardian is offline
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    Shrieking politicians don't know the law.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0712/97...cal-screening/
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  3. #1583
    damus damus is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble Guardian View Post
    Shrieking politicians don't know the law.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0712/97...cal-screening/
    Politicians aren't the only one's. HSE doesn't appear to know the legal principles of informed consent judging by this notification.

    HSE tells doctors they must inform women of 'longterm pain' risk before vaginal mesh operations
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  4. #1584
    damus damus is offline
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    Another slap in the face....putting a time cap on the expenses payout!

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-37103124.html
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  5. #1585
    Pizza Man Pizza Man is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble Guardian View Post
    Shrieking politicians don't know the law.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0712/97...cal-screening/
    "Social Democrats TD Catherine Murphy said that people should have their information protected and data protection legislation was there for a reason but it may have the potential at times to work against the common good."

    This is the same bitch who abused Dail privilege to make what may or may not turn out to be false allegations against an Irish citizen. The fact that the said citizen is massively unpopular (and I can't stand him!) doesn't in any way reduce the contemptibility and hypocrisy of her words.
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  6. #1586
    Noble Guardian Noble Guardian is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by damus View Post
    Politicians aren't the only one's. HSE doesn't appear to know the legal principles of informed consent judging by this notification.

    HSE tells doctors they must inform women of 'longterm pain' risk before vaginal mesh operations
    I read that differently; that the HSE do but individual doctors night not have been giving complete information during a consent process.

    Medics historically have not been good at doing this, wither because they do not actually know the objective rates of events, they do not know how to explain the probability of an event in a way the patient can understand and contextualize, or that they just don't want to give patients information that would "unnecessarily frighten them".

    All are unsatisfactory in their own ways.
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  7. #1587
    damus damus is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble Guardian View Post
    I read that differently; that the HSE do but individual doctors night not have been giving complete information during a consent process.

    Medics historically have not been good at doing this, wither because they do not actually know the objective rates of events, they do not know how to explain the probability of an event in a way the patient can understand and contextualize, or that they just don't want to give patients information that would "unnecessarily frighten them".

    All are unsatisfactory in their own ways.
    The other way of looking at this is why is it just about the vaginal mesh? If's highly unlikely that it's just gynae's who don't know the legal principles of informed consent, so why not issue a notification for all specialisms or update their PPPG's? Also, why are these doctors being appointed by the HSE if they aren't familiar with something that's so basic to professional and ethical practice? The beneficence won't be of much use to them in a court.
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  8. #1588
    Noble Guardian Noble Guardian is offline
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    This si an interesting area, and one perhaps best explained by a psychologist.

    There appears to be quite a difference between what patients say they would like to know in advance of treatment, versus what they think they should have been told after the event.

    https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/95/3/135/1548315

    Conversely, many medics, certainly those of my generation, were taught the principles of consent laid down in the Sideway judgement. namely that;

    "consent did not require an elaborate explanation of remote side effects."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidawa...Royal_Hospital

    Put those two things together, and add a little "Above all else, first do no harm", ( a frequently misquoted and misunderstood maxim), and you have a situation where medics think that;
    a) patients do not want to know everything about their treatment,
    b) I am not obliged to tell them about non-material (i.e. "rare") risks,
    c) to do so might unintentionally cause them to misunderstand the actual risks and reject an otherwise safe and effective treatment, thus the medic causing them harm.

    Medics are paternalistic. We want the best for our patients. But just like parents have to realise that children grow and want to make their own decisions, medics need to make the same mental transition from being authoritarian ("I know best, do as i say") to authoritative ("I know better, but it's your decision. Let em help you make the best one for you").

    Changes in the consent law in the UK (Montgomery vs Lanarkshire) make this clear. It's for medics to come to terms with this, but like many paradigm shifts it may need a generational change for it to occur.
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  9. #1589
    JoanBRUTAL JoanBRUTAL is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noble Guardian View Post
    We'll see. Any screening is better than no screening.
    Not if your told lies its not , its about as much use as an oral contract not worth the paper its written on
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  10. #1590
    Noble Guardian Noble Guardian is offline
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    As much use a Braille speedometer
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