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  1. #361
    Gurdiev77 Gurdiev77 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post
    Young men need to be taught how to be men.

    Lesson one - take responsibility for your actions.
    Lesson two - don't force somebody else - woman or child - to take responsibility for your actions.
    Agreed. Likewise for young women.
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  2. #362
    RodShaft RodShaft is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatullusV View Post
    Let's take your argument to its logical conclusion.

    You plea for equality. How is this for equality: if a father walks away from his child, offering no emotional or financial support, then he should be obliged to do the same to any subsequent children he may father - including those born within any subsequent marriage. That's equality, eh?

    Unfortunately, in the reproductive process there may be symmetry, but not equality. Biology, eh?
    That's some non sequitur there. And in the name of logic and all. Jaysis!
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  3. #363
    RodShaft RodShaft is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eagle of the Ninth View Post
    Its an attempt to cloud the issue. Whether or not a woman is entitled to an abortion has absolutely nothing to do with a father's legal responsibilities towards a born child.

    Abortion has neither been criminalised or decriminalised on those grounds. No court will ever decide that a right to an abortion should depend on the father's willingness to assume financial responsibility for a born child. In fact, any such argument would be ruled as contrary to the public interest.

    The fact that some posters think that that it is a legitimate one only shows their ignorance. You cannot import concepts from the law of real property and apply them to the law of individual personal rights. If we were to go down this route, then we would be accepting that such rights are contingent on the financial status of the individual.

    This was not even true in medieval times. One wonders just how confused and embittered some posters must be.
    Not even remotely on point.

    The issue raised was not whether abortion should be allowed, but whether a prospective father should be able to decide whether they would carry financial cost for a child at a time when there is still something that can be done about it.
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  4. #364
    RodShaft RodShaft is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disillusioned democrat View Post
    To be fair, the OP is one of the biggest flaws with the Repeal the 8th campaigners...if I hear someone say yet again it's a woman's referendum I'll scream.

    So surely by the same right as any lady who decides she wants an abortion any male who doesn't want kids should be able to insist on the lady having an abortion - otherwise it's not equality.
    No.
    No.
    No.

    You can't force a woman to have an abortion. The issue is should a prospective father have to pay for a child for up to 23 years if he clearly renounces all rights while she still has time to elect to have an abortion.

    There are lots of practical difficulties with implementation obviously, but the principle seems sound.
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  5. #365
    silverharp silverharp is offline
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    there is unfairness in the sense that deadbeat dads have the state chasing them whereas dead mothers get social housing and a raft of other benefits.
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  6. #366
    CatullusV CatullusV is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverharp View Post
    there is unfairness in the sense that deadbeat dads have the state chasing them whereas dead mothers get social housing and a raft of other benefits.
    Whereas the mothers have a child to cater for on a daily basis. You don't see the difference?
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  7. #367
    CatullusV CatullusV is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodShaft View Post
    That's some non sequitur there. And in the name of logic and all. Jaysis!
    It's no more than a logical extension of the sh1t in the first post.
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  8. #368
    silverharp silverharp is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by CatullusV View Post
    Whereas the mothers have a child to cater for on a daily basis. You don't see the difference?
    the question is should deadbeat mothers be propped up by the state? for example go around Dublin city centre and you will see junkies rolling prams, those kids should be adopted on , a junky for instance has no right to raise a kid as its not in the child's interests. If you ever watch that show Long Lost Families, the kids had a much better upbringing.
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  9. #369
    nationalsday nationalsday is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by RodShaft View Post
    No.
    No.
    No.

    You can't force a woman to have an abortion. The issue is should a prospective father have to pay for a child for up to 23 years if he clearly renounces all rights while she still has time to elect to have an abortion.

    There are lots of practical difficulties with implementation obviously, but the principle seems sound.
    Well put - and that is a vital issue which needs to be addressed, although it never will be as fathers in Ireland have about as much rights under present law as those which an American prisoner of the Islamic State who was caught drunk in a gay brothel while using prophet cartoon jax roll enjoys.

    The only thing to do is to vote no unless that issue is clarified. I say that as someone who has been a consistent lifelong advocate of abortion on demand for this country, and who voted against the 1983 amendment.
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  10. #370
    RodShaft RodShaft is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by nationalsday View Post
    Well put - and that is a vital issue which needs to be addressed, although it never will be as fathers in Ireland have about as much rights under present law as those which an American prisoner of the Islamic State who was caught drunk in a gay brothel enjoys.

    The only thing to do is to vote no unless that issue is clarified. I say that as someone who has been a consistent lifelong advocate of abortion on demand for this country, and who voted against the 1983 amendment.
    Sorry no sale.

    The issues are at best tangentially connected.

    I'm probably going to not vote; there may or may not be good reasons to keep the 8th, but unfair maintainence arrangements are not one of them.
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