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  1. #21
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded_Estate View Post
    You could argue that a committee was completely unnecessary.

    The citizen assembly recommend a proposed referendum and that should have been it.

    Ultimately the people decide through the referendum
    The fact your post and point, such as it was, was "liked" by 6 posters, all pro abortion so far as I know, does that tell you anything at all about your opinion?

    Two of them, like yourself, mods, but that's probably just coincidence, eh?

    So say the suctioncups anyway.
    Last edited by tonic; 15th November 2017 at 10:07 PM.
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  2. #22
    Calculusmadeeasy Calculusmadeeasy is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded_Estate View Post
    Except politicians are probably far easier to lobby by vested interests from either side of the argument.

    Ultimately it is the citizens that should and will decide through the referendum
    Ultimately it's the media that decide referenda.
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  3. #23
    MsDaisyC MsDaisyC is offline
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    Antichoice groups are angry and frustrated because the prochoice witnesses are actual experts in medical and legal fields, dealing with the reality of women and girls with crisis pregnancies. No spin and mumbo jumbo, just facts. Antis hate that.
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  4. #24
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded_Estate View Post
    Except politicians are probably far easier to lobby by vested interests from either side of the argument.

    Ultimately it is the citizens that should and will decide through the referendum
    As they already did, but it is politicians who will now decide if we are to have another referendum, you know one of those where we keep getting asked the same question until we give the "right" answer, and what the terms of the question will be.

    Can it possibly be that genuinely only those who are pro life can see this committee for what it obviously & undoubtedly is, a fit up or is it just that those who are pro abortion don't give a f*ck about that, they just want what they want regardless?
    Last edited by tonic; 15th November 2017 at 09:58 PM.
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  5. #25
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by MsDaisyC View Post
    Antichoice groups are angry and frustrated because the prochoice witnesses are actual experts in medical and legal fields, dealing with the reality of women and girls with crisis pregnancies. No spin and mumbo jumbo, just facts. Antis hate that.
    Take off that dress and go to bed Lumpy, good man.
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  6. #26
    MsDaisyC MsDaisyC is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonic View Post
    Take off that dress and go to bed Lumpy, good man.
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  7. #27
    WTTR WTTR is offline
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    It is far from the Immaculate Heart of Mary society, we are now. You clown!

    Quote Originally Posted by eoghanacht View Post
    I blame the Bishops, since they consecrated Ireland to the Virgin Mary we've see the passing of the SSM REF and now limited abortion look like passing.

    Consecration of Ireland to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
    How brave of the modern Irish person to stand up to the bishops!

    We are now a brainless nation:

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  8. #28
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Half Nelson View Post
    Or, as another said - " God isn't only the team manager, He's also the referee,"
    I never heard that before but that is brilliant- did you think that up yourself? If you did you are a bit of a genius.
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  9. #29
    Finbar10 Finbar10 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreaded_Estate View Post
    You could argue that a committee was completely unnecessary.

    The citizen assembly recommend a proposed referendum and that should have been it.

    Ultimately the people decide through the referendum
    I think the citizens assembly format is useful for teasing out non-contentious issues beloved of political anoraks (I followed a lot of the first "citizens convention" which focused on a deliberately limited programme of political reform; though still did useful work). A random assembly of citizens could actually be useful for more contentious topics like abortion also.

    However, it's not really a random sample. In the first convention, for every 40 people asked to participate, only one person agreed to give up numerous weekends over a prolonged period. It then imposed broad demographic and socio-economic rebalancing (so many people from Munster, so many from age 50-60 etc.) to make it more "representative". The people taking part though are atypical, and, I suspect, given abortion was the headline topic, this assembly is on average made up of people far more interested in abortion than the typical Joe Soap.

    I predicted from the start that this assembly would make either a very pro- or very anti- abortion recommendation depending on the ratio of core pros to antis in the population. From opinion polls, the hardcore pro-abortion vote is significantly bigger than the anti-abortion one. However, 60% of people are somewhere inbetween, favouring some middle ground between the assembly's recommendation (up to 22 weeks for rather vague socio-economic reasons) and no change at all.
    Last edited by Finbar10; 15th November 2017 at 10:15 PM.
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  10. #30
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTTR View Post
    How brave of the modern Irish person to stand up to the bishops!

    We are now a brainless nation:

    You've obviously decided to disregard the 'pregnant and barefoot' days of the tenements. And I don't think men were any more or less conscious of responsibility back then any more than they are now although these days there are courts and state agencies to assist with getting financial support for children of feckless fathers.

    Wouldn't you say that deduction of child support from wages and salaries somewhat focuses the mind? Or did you prefer the destitution days and the squalor of old Dublin.
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