Register to Comment
Page 2 of 107 FirstFirst 12341252102 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 1067
Like Tree310Likes
  1. #11
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline
    Half Nelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    19,637

    It's always surprising to see how certain politicians will sacrifice so much for so little. Almost nobody had heard of Senator Noone prior to this committe, yet she has stood out for one distinct reason - her blatant lack of integrity. Such a badge will not be easily discarded.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  2. #12
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    15,739
    Twitter
    @

    Just goes to show two things. That the 8th should never have been put in the constitution in the first place as many argued at the time and secondly the issue of this now notorious amendment has been marked by a cowardice in the legislature time and time to engage with its inevitable demise.

    Even if the 8th remained in place it will continue to be disregarded by the populace who are not in the habit of making decisions in their lives by reference to the constitution- which is pretty much most of the population.

    The Committee can recommend what it likes. The population has made its own decision on the matter at hand long ago and this is often the case with a legislature that trails along like most attempts at regulation in the baggage train.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  3. #13
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
    Dame_Enda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    38,111

    A stark contrast to the perpetual committee hearings on Michael McDowell's Immigration, Protection and Residence Bill years ago that ended up never being enacted. That committee was allowed to kill the bill, whereas this one is clearly stage managed and unabalanced. If I vote (Im unsure if I will as I think its mostly a woman's issue) I will probably vote for some sort of change - the status quo puts a sword of Damocles over doctor's medical decisions due to the fear of being sued. Peadar Toibin TD said on TWIP on RTE that only only 4 pro-life witnesses were called compared to 24 pro-choice. That is clearly pushing a predetermined outcome and makes a mockery of the committee system.

    I don't agree that the life of the mother should be compromised by the life of her unborn child or foetus. If you were a child would you want your mother, who might be pregnant with your potential sibling, to be allowed to die in order to save the sibling? I don't think you would.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  4. #14
    ireallyshouldknowbetter ireallyshouldknowbetter is offline
    ireallyshouldknowbetter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    9,764

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    At times when I was despaired my best friend used to give a quote from the Koran; "They plotted, and Allah plotted, and Allah is the best of plotters".
    I found this quote awe-inspiring and I would like to put it on a t-shirt. Do you think that would be blasphemous? Always best to err on the side of caution when it comes to Allah I suppose. After all, he is the best of the plotters.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  5. #15
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    15,739
    Twitter
    @

    It is possible of course that the reason for the disparity in the numbers of expert witnesses on the 'pro-life' side of the house in the committee hearings is that there isn't a great spread of reasons to retain the 8th that don't lead back to one place and one place only- religious conviction.

    I would point out something else- that the submissions were short one obvious witness on the 'pro-life' side which has noticeably been trying not to be seen or heard, at least publicly- the priest.

    And at the same time that is what three committee members were representing and what the 'pro-life' argument was, when reduced to its basic level.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  6. #16
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline
    Half Nelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    19,637

    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    A stark contrast to the perpetual committee hearings on Michael McDowell's Immigration, Protection and Residence Bill years ago that ended up never being enacted. That committee was allowed to kill the bill, whereas this one is clearly stage managed and unabalanced. If I vote (Im unsure if I will as I think its mostly a woman's issue) I will probably vote for some sort of change - the status quo puts a sword of Damocles over doctor's medical decisions due to the fear of being sued. Peadar Toibin TD said on TWIP on RTE that only only 4 pro-life witnesses were called compared to 24 pro-choice. That is clearly pushing a predetermined outcome and makes a mockery of the committee system.

    I don't agree that the life of the mother should be compromised by the life of her unborn child or foetus. If you were a child would you want your mother, who might be pregnant with your potential sibling, to be allowed to die in order to save the sibling? I don't think you would.
    Try not to scare yourself into a tizzy, good chap.
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  7. #17
    eoghanacht eoghanacht is offline
    eoghanacht's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    37,533

    I blame the Bishops, since they consecrated Ireland to the Virgin Mary we've see the passing of the SSM REF and now limited abortion look like passing.

    Consecration of Ireland to the Immaculate Heart of Mary
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  8. #18
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline
    Half Nelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    19,637

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    At times when I was despaired my best friend used to give a quote from the Koran; "They plotted, and Allah plotted, and Allah is the best of plotters". The 8 th will kept I'm sure of it in this upcoming referendum, but I'm also sure that we will get a repeat referendum to get the "correct" result which instead of bringing less drama will bring more.
    Or, as another said - " God isn't only the team manager, He's also the referee,"
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  9. #19
    Telstar 62 Telstar 62 is offline

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    18,884

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    It is possible of course that the reason for the disparity in the numbers of expert witnesses on the 'pro-life' side of the house in the committee hearings is that there isn't a great spread of reasons to retain the 8th that don't lead back to one place and one place only- religious conviction.

    I would point out something else- that the submissions were short one obvious witness on the 'pro-life' side which has noticeably been trying not to be seen or heard, at least publicly- the priest.

    And at the same time that is what three committee members were representing and what the 'pro-life' argument was, when reduced to its basic level.

    Where would you be without the 'religious' stereotype, eh??

    You gave the game away with the 'priests hiding'...

    Your Probort crowd would like nothing better than the appearance of priests
    for some staged 'outrage'!!

    You're so desperate, that you want it to be about the Catholic Church.....
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

  10. #20
    Calculusmadeeasy Calculusmadeeasy is offline
    Calculusmadeeasy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    19,357

    Quote Originally Posted by scolairebocht View Post
    As everybody knows the Oireachtas has set up a Committee to consider the outcome of the Citizens Assembly which recommended repealing the 8th amendment. Without any disrespect to the chairperson or most of the members, the fact is that this has become so obviously a pro-choice brainwashing exercise that it is actually discrediting the Irish political system. I say that for the following reasons:

    As far as I can tell out of 34 witnesses to date, one, Professor William Binchy, is pro-life.(1) It was quite noticeable too that when he spoke almost all the questioners interrupted by saying 'we have very little time' etc even though he spoke very fast and sometimes gave only one sentence answers, whereas the pro-choice person beside him was allowed to speak at length and without interruption at the same time.

    You can also find a kind of hostile attitude towards the three pro-life Committee members (Mattie McGrath, Ronan Mullen and Peter Fitzpatrick) when they speak, being interrupted by other committee members etc, especially in the October sessions, which doesn't happen when others are speaking.

    But particularly I am saying this because having asked all these witnesses to come, and broadcasting to the world the idea that they were dedicated to seeking expert advice before arriving at a position, the Committtee has in fact voted to recommend repealing the 8th amendment half way through, while the witnesses are still giving evidence! This is obviously a crazy thing to do and insulting to the unheard witnesses, especially to the - tiny number of - pro-life experts that the Committee claimed they wanted to hear from.

    If you don't believe me you should read some of the comments from the invited witnesses shocked at this treatment. For example Professor Patricia Casey:


    Other potential speakers, who were/are very anxious to put their case before the Committee, and pretty much everywhere else, are now put off by its 'charade' aspect, this is from Dawn McAvoy of the Belfast based Both Lives Matter organisation:


    Now the penny has dropped internationally how much a set up the whole thing is, this is from Dr Marty McCaffrey, of Chapel Hill, North Carolina:


    So I think what has happened here was also evident in the UCD episode. The pro-choice side, which has so much control over the state and media etc, has over-reached itself into a Pyrrhic victory. Its natural instincts is to go with this 'no platform' ideology, but in doing so it almost does too good a job and offends people who would like to hear both sides.

    Hence the real story of this committee I think, irrespective of whatever it actually recommends, is that it has laid bare the Orwellian nature of so much public discourse in modern Ireland.

    Footnotes
    1. This is the list of witnesses heard by the Committee to date, gaps between these names refer to different sessions held on the one day:
    20th September
    Ms Justice Mary Laffoy
    Ms Sharon Finegan
    Ms Gráinne Hynes

    27th September
    Professor Fiona de Londras
    Dr David Kenny
    Ms Mary O'Toole

    4th October
    Ms Emily Logan
    Professor Siobhan Mullally
    Ms Ruth Gallagher

    Ms Christina Zampras
    Professor William Binchy

    11th October
    Dr Ronald Johnson
    Dr Bela Ganatra
    Professor Abigail Aiken

    Dr Rhona Mahony
    Professor Fergal Malone

    12th October
    Dr Brendan O'Shea
    Dr Karena Hanley

    18th October
    Professor Sir Sabaratnam Arulkumaran
    Dr Peter Boylan
    Dr Meabh Ni Bhuinneain

    (Then the Committee, based in part on legal advice received in private session, voted to recommend repeal of the 8th amendment.)

    25th October
    Professor Veronica O'Keane

    Tom O'Malley S.C.
    Ms Noeline Blackwell
    Ms Angela McCarthy
    Dr Maeve Eogan

    Gerry Edwards
    Ms Claire Cullen-Delsol

    8th November
    Dr Gilda Sedgh
    Ms Leah Hoctor

    Dr Ruth Fletcher

    Dr Anthony McCarthy

    15th November
    Dr Caitriona Henchion

    Ms Janice Donlan

    2. Life Institute | Latest News .

    3. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...ves-Matter.pdf .

    4. http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...-McCaffrey.pdf .
    Good post, but Duhh!
    Sign in or Register Now to reply

Page 2 of 107 FirstFirst 12341252102 ... LastLast
Sign in to CommentRegister to Comment