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  1. #91
    The_SR The_SR is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by LISTOWEL MAN View Post
    what i thought when RTE sided with bliss against waters
    By paying Waters off? Jaysis.
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  2. #92
    Telstar 62 Telstar 62 is offline

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    Curious as to how BPAS, who are giving evidence at the 8th Committee today,
    can be considered 'unbiased' - when they own the domain name abortion.ie.
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  3. #93
    scolairebocht scolairebocht is offline
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    Anyway the Committee has concluded the hearing of witnesses and so it has ended with 2 of 51 witnesses being prolife.

    Here are a few more details by Senator Ronan Mullen on who were invited:
    "I looked at The Irish Times report on the matter earlier - to the effect that the committee would not hear from advocacy groups, just from so-called experts. I opposed that exclusion of advocacy groups and my objection was noted. The committee then went on to invite numerous pro-abortion advocacy groups. No pro-life advocacy group was invited. What more evidence do we need of a flawed process, flawed attitudes and closed minds coming from within the committee? Only one pro-life advocacy group, which clarified an issue relating to its own work - I am referring to Both Lives Matter - offered to come before the committee and this offer was declined by the secretariat on the basis that advocacy groups were not being invited. The latter was despite the fact that the group in question had been invited."
    ( Joint Committee on the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution - 22/Nov/2017 .)
    And during the same debate the Tipperary deputy, Mattie McGrath, tried to get some stats from the clerk:
    "As I said, the timeline which led to the charge of bias in the committee is critical. At the outset, the committee invited 24 pro-repeal witnesses to present before it and just three pro-life witnesses. I thank the clerk to the committee for his endurance and forbearance in co-operating with me in trying to find out the full list. Then, in a most extraordinary move, just three weeks into the 12 weeks of hearings, this committee voted not to retain the eighth amendment in full thereby demonstrating that it had no interest in hearing from all witnesses before making a decision. This move alone has destroyed the credibility of the committee and put to bed any claim that it conducted itself in an impartial way. By voting so early in the process, the committee behaved in a juvenile and contemptuous fashion towards the democratic process and our duty as elected parliamentarians to scrutinise and ask the hard questions before voting on any proposal, most particularly when it involves a life-and-death issue. This vote, which was taken just three weeks into the hearings, means that the committee gave its verdict on the eighth amendment after hearing from less than a third of the witnesses who were invited to appear before it. We voted after hearing from 14 pro-repeal witnesses and just one pro-life speaker.
    ...
    For the record, it is not the case that lots of pro-life groups and individuals were contacted after the initial three were invited. My understanding is that only two additional pro-life individuals and groups were contacted, bringing it to a total of five pro-life invitations against 28 or 29 on the pro-repeal side. These figures have been supplied by the secretariat."
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  4. #94
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    As I've pointed out the rationale for retention of the 8th in full runs out of road just past the parish priest's house.

    You could have 24 separate xtian religious groups advocating retention of the 8th if you like but it would all be the same wind coming from the same quarter.

    They only have one argument and that is the adoration of the Bab-beh, based on a religious idea that a cytoblast, zygote or pre-sentient foetus equals an adult full grown female in terms of rights and that doesn't even sound like any kind of expert argument in the first place.
    Last edited by Lumpy Talbot; 7th December 2017 at 07:40 AM.
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  5. #95
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    Still. I am encouraged by the high white noise of whinging emerging from the O'Taliban camp.

    They wouldn't be whinging if they thought they had any chance of winning the proposed referendum.
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  6. #96
    Emily Davison Emily Davison is offline

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    Looks from this that the decision the committee will come to is to suggest a straight repeal, that abortion should be a matter for the legislature..

    Committee set to back repeal of Eighth Amendment | Irish Examiner

    Makes a cleaner referendum. Takes discussion as to what proves rape or FFA out of the debate.
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  7. #97
    wombat wombat is online now
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    My understanding of the purpose of the committee was to reach a consensus among the parties as to what should be put to the people. It appears that they have reached a consensus. The hope was that FF and FG could avoid divisions over the issue but it seems that hope will be dashed if a simple proposal to delete the 8th amendment is put to the people.
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  8. #98
    Emily Davison Emily Davison is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by scolairebocht View Post
    Anyway the Committee has concluded the hearing of witnesses and so it has ended with 2 of 51 witnesses being prolife.

    Here are a few more details by Senator Ronan Mullen on who were invited:


    And during the same debate the Tipperary deputy, Mattie McGrath, tried to get some stats from the clerk:
    Summary: Two pro lifers want to deny the Irish people the right to vote.
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  9. #99
    Lord Talbot Lord Talbot is offline
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    So long to a backward law from a backward era.
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  10. #100
    petaljam petaljam is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by scolairebocht View Post
    Anyway the Committee has concluded the hearing of witnesses and so it has ended with 2 of 51 witnesses being prolife.

    Here are a few more details by Senator Ronan Mullen on who were invited:


    And during the same debate the Tipperary deputy, Mattie McGrath, tried to get some stats from the clerk:
    I thought committee members put the names forward and they were accepted or rejected?

    ETA Found this about the selection procedure. No lobby groups initially, but then when Mattie and allies wanted parents of Down Syndrome children to testify, it was accepted - but with TFMR being invited in exchange.

    Dunno, seems like a failed effort there from the two of them. Who's against kids with Downs existing? That's not the issue at all, it's whether anyone else should be allowed to force couples to continue a pregnancy after a diagnosis of Down Syndrome if they choose not to.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...tiny-1.3262392


    So Matty is being disingenuous about the selection procedure. Well I never.
    Last edited by petaljam; 7th December 2017 at 10:11 AM.
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