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  1. #661
    riven riven is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Activist View Post
    The title of this thread implies everyone should be vaccinated for hpv . Those who object are called dangerous and stupid. However the basis for their objection comes from previous corruption cases of big pharma. Many people refuse to believe anything big pharma has to say

    Once the trust is broken its very difficult to get back.
    Actually no. Much of their basis comes from hearsay and biased outlets on the web. However digging through some of these, you can see that the posters who put this stuff up has not even read the so called source (see post #203).

    Yes I agree that big pharma has many problems but consider this, most big pharma revenues have always come from non vaccination therapy. Many of the diseases that those posters are claiming were held up had no non vaccine therapies.

    Even so the crux of the matter really boils down to post #84. I responded to some graphs used by two of the main protagonists which they say proved their case. What their graphs proved is that most of the incidences of one disease were indeed prevented by better sanitation (80%) (England Wales Scarlet fever and others). What they leave out of their narrative is that

    1. There was stagnation in the decline of the disease for about 20-30 years before vaccines were introduced. On introduction a similar decline was seen to that produced by increasing sanitation. This suggests as we well know from the likes of Cholera, that sanitation only goes so far.

    2. The second disease in those graphs was showing response to sanitation (before an epidemic) and the decline increased upon vaccination.
    Last edited by riven; 13th September 2017 at 04:20 PM.
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  2. #662
    Armchair Activist Armchair Activist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    They should. In the same way everyone should be vaccinated for MMR etc. It saves lives.


    No, those who object on bat$hit grounds, and that is the majority who object, are called that. Because it's true.


    No, their objections come from stupidity and groundless paranoia. Countless clinical trials, studies and investigations by multiple researchers for multiple organisations have shown it is safe and effective.


    No trust was broken. One paranoia sets in it's very difficult to claw back the stupid and protect vulnerable people from preventable diseases.
    What would you say to someone who refuses a newly released vaccination that doesn't have at least one decade of rigorous testing? (Much like the swine flu for example )
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  3. #663
    Armchair Activist Armchair Activist is offline

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    People are only responding to what they see in headlines. They then search on Google for documentaries and the like which further boost their lack of confidence in vaccines and their manufacturers when they see testimonials from severely damaged people. On the other side of the argument they read comments from people like yourself (cookie monster) calling them stupid.
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  4. #664
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Activist View Post
    People are only responding to what they see in headlines.
    People are responding to alarmist bull$************************ spread by people like you.
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  5. #665
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Activist View Post
    What would you say to someone who refuses a newly released vaccination that doesn't have at least one decade of rigorous testing? (Much like the swine flu for example )
    Depends on their reason.
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  6. #666
    Armchair Activist Armchair Activist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    People are responding to alarmist bull$************************ spread by people like you.
    Do you fail to remember the "end of the world" alarmism with the h1n1 flu virus. Billions were spent stock piling vaccines that were rushed through FDA approval. The same vaccines that have destroyed lives.

    Now we're expected to trust the same people?
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  7. #667
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Activist View Post
    Do you fail to remember the "end of the world" alarmism with the h1n1 flu virus. Billions were spent stock piling vaccines that were rushed through FDA approval. The same vaccines that have destroyed lives.

    Now we're expected to trust the same people?
    No. We're expected to trust facts, of which there are many from multiple reputable sources, which show that the HPV vaccine is safe and effective.

    Or, we can trust some $hit you googled.
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  8. #668
    Armchair Activist Armchair Activist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    Depends on their reason.
    Safety.
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  9. #669
    CookieMonster CookieMonster is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armchair Activist View Post
    Safety.
    Yeah...
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  10. #670
    Armchair Activist Armchair Activist is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieMonster View Post
    No. We're expected to trust facts, of which there are many from multiple reputable sources, which show that the HPV vaccine is safe and effective.

    Or, we can trust some $hit you googled.
    Such facts need to be established and may take years to do so.

    The sh*t you refer to are people who believe the hpv vaccine caused or contributed to their unfortunate side effects.

    Vaers (the body responsible for vaccine side effects data) report several thousand cases of ill effects of hpv vaccines. Some including death and paralysis. Without a control group its impossible to establish the accuracy of these statistics.

    But you calling them sh*t, well that just contributes to a growing polarization, with one group believing forced medicalisation and the other believing doc-leaves and nettles
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