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  1. #21
    sadcitizen sadcitizen is offline

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    I'd be very surprised if church attendance hasn't increased this year regardless of whether it's declined over the longer period. Does anybody have figures?
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  2. #22
    wombat wombat is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    I've a relation in Glenstall. He's very calm and very zen. But he's totally divorced from life.
    It goes with the territory, the whole idea of a monastery is to separate yourself from the world. Sometimes we complicate things so much that we lose sight of the original message. I went to mass once in north America and discovered most of what I had rejected was peculiar to the Irish form of catholicism so I decided to take another crack at it, just not the christian brothers version - a bit like history, it was a very strange mixture.
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  3. #23
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texal Tom View Post
    The church of Ireland (Anglican) is all those modern whatever you're having yourself and it is a much more frail species despite its openness to modernity.
    The Church of Ireland in Ulster is a LOT more "conservative" than the Catholic Church in the Southern part of the Island in a lot of ways. I was raised Presbyterian but joined the COI in my teens (long story there) and I found other Five Point Calvinists pretty easily within it and even "Young Earth Creationists".
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  4. #24
    cunnyfunt cunnyfunt is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by eoghanacht View Post
    Just none of them go to Mass.

    Dying on its arse, if it weren't for the grip the RCC had on the schools the hatched, matched and dispacted brigade wouldn't bother their arse.

    It's gotten so bad they have to prove their mass attendance in order that they might receive communion. That's how devout the dwindling congregation is it has to be reminded to attend the central ceremony of their faith.

    Muwhaha...
    Christianophobe. Now get back over to all them islamophobes and slate them.....
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  5. #25
    statsman statsman is offline
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    So, basically nobody wants to read the link and engage with the actual argument? Which makes him seem very, very right.
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  6. #26
    tsarbomb tsarbomb is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    Read the link.
    The article is heavy with wishy washy ideas such as humans not being subject to the laws of nature and very light on the specifics on these funny notions of "gender diversity". You'd know that if you read the article yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratio Et Fides View Post
    A lot of it has to do really with effeminate Priests who preach mushy snuggle-bunnyish and not the Gospel of Christ. The "ah sure aren't we all grand" attitude turns off people who are serious minded. It is an ordeal often to sit through sermons in the Novus Ordo. Better for people to travel to a Traditional/Latin Mass and avoid the mainstream Church.
    I'm not a Catholic myself, but what this chap and others seem to be suggesting is that in order for the Church to evolve it must cease to be Christian in any recognisable sense of the meaning?
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  7. #27
    LISTOWEL MAN LISTOWEL MAN is offline
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  8. #28
    NYCKY NYCKY is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by statsman View Post
    In an interesting opinion piece in the Irish Times, Mark Patrick Hederman predicts that the church of which he is a member has at most a decade to adapt or become 'an irrelevant minority'. Hederman, a monk in Glenstal Abbey, is one of Irish Catholicism's best minds, and it's not going to be easy to ignore his call for a 21st century church, one that recognises gender and sexual diversity, the role of women and of the feminine principle that resides in all of us, the importance of science and the absolute need for democracy.

    As an interested outsider, I think he is probably right, and that it's unlikely that the essentially conservative RCC is capable of the kinds of necessary change he highlights. If he and I are both right, this has huge significance to what Ireland will look like in 2027.
    Have a read and see what you think:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/bo...rity-1.3084834

    [Mods: This belongs in Social Affairs, not Culture & Community, in my view. If you disagree, please move.]
    I'd say it's only a matter of days!
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  9. #29
    Ratio Et Fides Ratio Et Fides is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsarbomb View Post
    I'm not a Catholic myself, but what this chap and others seem to be suggesting is that in order for the Church to evolve it must cease to be Christian in any recognisable sense of the meaning?
    Make of this what you will;

    "If we wish to remain conservative and old-fashioned, at least let us not be sectarian and supportive of values and lifestyles which have been rejected by the majority of 21st-century people. Otherwise we are categorised as out-of-date leftovers from a previous era, such as the Amish communities in America and Canada. These were founded in the 17th century and they steadfastly refuse on principal to move into the 21st. They use horses for farming and transportation, dress in a traditional manner and forbid electricity or telephones in the home. Church members do not join the military, nor do they apply for social security benefits. They refuse to take out insurance or accept any form of financial assistance from the government. They value rural life, manual labour and humility, and they discontinue formal education at the age of 14. We might be less identifiable and less obvious retros but nonetheless determined to remain behind where the 19th century left off."

    He has a go at the Amish, not for their views on the Sacraments, but wanting to live a quiet, prayerful life away from being embroiled in technology, etc.
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  10. #30
    statsman statsman is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsarbomb View Post
    The article is heavy with wishy washy ideas such as humans not being subject to the laws of nature and very light on the specifics on these funny notions of "gender diversity". You'd know that if you read the article yourself.



    I'm not a Catholic myself, but what this chap and others seem to be suggesting is that in order for the Church to evolve it must cease to be Christian in any recognisable sense of the meaning?
    He's fairly clearly saying accept LBGT identities as normal.
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