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  1. #21
    Calculusmadeeasy Calculusmadeeasy is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by gleeful View Post
    Roe vs Wade was based on the wording of the article on the protection of privacy in the US constitution.

    Is there any similar part of the Irish constitution that could provide a similar justification? If not, this thread is pointless.
    Bunreacht's recognition of personal rights motivated the lifting of the ban on contraception. That was interpreted by the SC as a marital couple's right to privacy. However that right - whilst not stated explicitly in the text, I think - extends to everyone else.

    So, it's possible that abortion could be interpreted in the same way.
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  2. #22
    Emily Davison Emily Davison is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by ger12 View Post
    I'm not interested in debating whether abortion is right or wrong, that's been discussed in quite a number of threads.

    Rather, could we look at whether Ireland could face a Roe V's Wade situation in the event of the removal of the recognition to the right to life of an unborn child.

    In Ireland and the U.S. we have a common law system. While the U.K. also have a common law system, they don't have a written constitution so they can legislate as they please.

    So I'd argue that the U.S. is the best comparator.

    Do you believe any attempt to limit a woman's right to an abortion may be considered unconstitutional under Privacy and Bodily integrity like in the U.S.?
    The fact the UK does have a constitution albeit an unwritten one is somehow irrelevant is it?
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  3. #23
    Emily Davison Emily Davison is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by talkingshop View Post
    Hasn't the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Act 2013 (or possibly 2014) replaced the 1861 Act in this regard?

    The POLDP has no term limits. And it now also apparently means an abortion is a c section.
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  4. #24
    'orebel 'orebel is offline
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    Isn't there already a thread on the 8th?
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  5. #25
    The Eagle of the Ninth The Eagle of the Ninth is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Davison View Post
    The fact the UK does have a constitution albeit an unwritten one is somehow irrelevant is it?
    Is ger still arguing that the UK has no constitution? Has he pootled off to the UK Supreme Court and told them, hey chaps, dont bother ruling on whether the PM can use the Crown Prerogative to take the UK out of the EU cos, I ger am here to tell you, you have no constitution and therefore no basis for any law in the UK?
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  6. #26
    livingstone livingstone is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by talkingshop View Post
    The European Court of HR, as I read it, would like to enforce abortion (and would also like to enforce gay marriage) but haven't done so to date as they don't feel they can find these rights in the Convention. But they also seem to have this bizarre thing that if enough states endorse abortion, or gay marriage (or other things) they can then find that these are enforceable, "found" in the Convention. So yes, quite honestly, even though I favour a more liberal abortion regime than you, I think the Irish people would be advised to keep what they want about abortion in the Constitution, to avoid possibly being dictated to by the ECHR on this.
    It being in the Constitution doesn't mean that the ECHR can't rule that the Constitutional provisions are in breach of the ECHR.
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  7. #27
    livingstone livingstone is offline
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    As to the main question, simply taking the US as a comparator isn't enough.

    You'd need to look at how the Courts have interpreted privacy and bodily integrity rights and compare them.

    The fact that both countries have written, codified constitutions isn't sufficient to conclude that what happened in one country would happen in the other.
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  8. #28
    tonic tonic is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calculusmadeeasy View Post
    Bunreacht's recognition of personal rights motivated the lifting of the ban on contraception. That was interpreted by the SC as a marital couple's right to privacy. However that right - whilst not stated explicitly in the text, I think - extends to everyone else.

    So, it's possible that abortion could be interpreted in the same way.
    There is no way to be sure what way the SC will bounce on any given issue, which is why we were right to put the 8th in place and why the pro abortion lot get so excited at the thought of it being removed.

    This and other possibilities will be debated in great detail in the event of any attempt to remove the 8th by referendum, in turn why any opinion poll results prior to such detailed debate are in effect meaningless.
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  9. #29
    parentheses parentheses is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonic View Post
    There is no way to be sure what way the SC will bounce on any given issue, which is why we were right to put the 8th in place and why the pro abortion lot get so excited at the thought of it being removed.

    This and other possibilities will be debated in great detail in the event of any attempt to remove the 8th by referendum, in turn why any opinion poll results prior to such detailed debate are in effect meaningless.
    The Labour party wants legislation along the lines of the UK 1967 abortion act introduced if the 8th is deleted.

    This means they envisage a very liberal abortion regime for Ireland.
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  10. #30
    gleeful gleeful is online now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emily Davison View Post
    The fact the UK does have a constitution albeit an unwritten one is somehow irrelevant is it?
    The UK doesnt have a constitution. It has law - all of which can be changed by a simple parlimentary majority. That isnt a constitution.
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