Doctor, have you washed your hands?

[Cookie68]

So the doctor is about to put a scope down your throat and it might well be sore. You're anxious about what he might find down there and what he might rupture if things go wrong. His English isn't great but you reckon it doesn't matter so long as he's qualified and experienced enough.

What do you do? Say a prayer? Think of your family? No. You ask the doctor if he has washed his hands.

That's the message from the HSE advertising campaign to combat MRSA.

It doesn't seem to be simply a matter for the management and staff of hospitals to follow best practice in relation to hygiene. It's down to the patient.

I'd find it very difficult to ask someone if they had washed their hands.

It sounds like the HSE has washed its hands of its responsibility.

[morryah]

what a stupid ad. as if doctors need to be embarrassed into washing their hands by the patients.

doctors - have you washed your hands of your responsibilities?

[qtman]

So the doctor is about to put a scope down your throat and it might well be sore. You're anxious about what he might find down there and what he might rupture if things go wrong. His English isn't great but you reckon it doesn't matter so long as he's qualified and experienced enough.

What do you do? Say a prayer? Think of your family? No. You ask the doctor if he has washed his hands.

That's the message from the HSE advertising campaign to combat MRSA.

It doesn't seem to be simply a matter for the management and staff of hospitals to follow best practice in relation to hygiene. It's down to the patient.

I'd find it very difficult to ask someone if they had washed their hands.

It sounds like the HSE has washed its hands of its responsibility.

How do you suggest that the HSE compels Doctors and Nurses to wash their hands?

[Kate P]

This is no surprise really.

There's a developing trend of placing the responsibility on the consumer or client for tasks that should be undertaken by those who actually hold the responsibilities that are fundamental to their role.

A small example of this is the preponderance of signs in toilets asking customers to please tell management if things are not right.

It suggests that the job of maintaining standards has fallen to the service user rather than the service provider. While the user is entitled and obliged to expect high standards, it's not his job to enforce them.

[Wolverine]

So the doctor is about to put a scope down your throat and it might well be sore. You're anxious about what he might find down there and what he might rupture if things go wrong. His English isn't great but you reckon it doesn't matter so long as he's qualified and experienced enough.

What do you do? Say a prayer? Think of your family? No. You ask the doctor if he has washed his hands.

That's the message from the HSE advertising campaign to combat MRSA.

It doesn't seem to be simply a matter for the management and staff of hospitals to follow best practice in relation to hygiene. It's down to the patient.

I'd find it very difficult to ask someone if they had washed their hands.

It sounds like the HSE has washed its hands of its responsibility.

How do you suggest that the HSE compels Doctors and Nurses to wash their hands?

Are you serious? If there are examples of docs and nurses not washing hands they should be fined and/or suspended and/or fired. That's how I'd compel them

Something to add to the inspectors jobs.

[Cookie68]

How do you suggest that the HSE compels Doctors and Nurses to wash their hands?

Fair question. I didn't put forward a better approach.

I'm simply suggesting that the wrong message is being sent out i.e. that "we, as the Health Service Executive cannot ensure that our medical professionals have washed their hands after having their hands up another patient's @rse so it's up to you to ask them".

Now if a doctor of all people isn't prepared to wash his hands before examining you is he going to tell the truth if you ask?

In the Patient/Doctor scenario it shouldn't be up to the patient should it? That's unfair.

I would see it as a management and professional issue and that the onus shouldn't be shifted to the patient.

How about rigorous hygiene audits?

[qtman]

So the doctor is about to put a scope down your throat and it might well be sore. You're anxious about what he might find down there and what he might rupture if things go wrong. His English isn't great but you reckon it doesn't matter so long as he's qualified and experienced enough.

What do you do? Say a prayer? Think of your family? No. You ask the doctor if he has washed his hands.

That's the message from the HSE advertising campaign to combat MRSA.

It doesn't seem to be simply a matter for the management and staff of hospitals to follow best practice in relation to hygiene. It's down to the patient.

I'd find it very difficult to ask someone if they had washed their hands.

It sounds like the HSE has washed its hands of its responsibility.

How do you suggest that the HSE compels Doctors and Nurses to wash their hands?

Are you serious? If there are examples of docs and nurses not washing hands they should be fined and/or suspended and/or fired.

What a good idea.That would also solve the problem of the oversupply of Doctors and Nurses we have in the Health Service.

"So sorry, Missus Brady. Dr. Patel can't perform your hip replacement today because we fired him last week for not washing his hands. Give us shout next month and we'll see what we can do."

[Kate P]

So the doctor is about to put a scope down your throat and it might well be sore. You're anxious about what he might find down there and what he might rupture if things go wrong. His English isn't great but you reckon it doesn't matter so long as he's qualified and experienced enough.

What do you do? Say a prayer? Think of your family? No. You ask the doctor if he has washed his hands.

That's the message from the HSE advertising campaign to combat MRSA.

It doesn't seem to be simply a matter for the management and staff of hospitals to follow best practice in relation to hygiene. It's down to the patient.

I'd find it very difficult to ask someone if they had washed their hands.

It sounds like the HSE has washed its hands of its responsibility.

How do you suggest that the HSE compels Doctors and Nurses to wash their hands?

Are you serious? If there are examples of docs and nurses not washing hands they should be fined and/or suspended and/or fired.

What a good idea.That would also solve the problem of the oversupply of Doctors and Nurses we have in the Health Service.

"So sorry, Missus Brady. Dr. Patel can't perform your hip replacement today because we fired him last week for not washing his hands. Give us shout next month and we'll see what we can do."

In fairness to Wolverine I think the point being made is that it's always the health practitioner's responsibility and that it is such a fundamental part of doing the job properly that neglecting it should be taken very seriously.

How that is done is another question...

[qtman]

How do you suggest that the HSE compels Doctors and Nurses to wash their hands?

Fair question. I didn't put forward a better approach.

I'm simply suggesting that the wrong message is being sent out i.e. that "we, as the Health Service Executive cannot ensure that our medical professionals have washed their hands after having their hands up another patient's @rse so it's up to you to ask them".

That isn't the message. The HSE spend a fortune promoting hand hygiene, which you would know if you had been to a hospital any time in the last 5 years. The patient plays an important role in this too, and the HSE are trying to promote a self-advocacy culture among patients, which is lacking in Ireland. Ultimately, the end users of the service are the ones who will have the most impact re. the behaviour of doctors and nurses.

Now if a doctor of all people isn't prepared to wash his hands before examining you is he going to tell the truth if you ask?

You won't know until you ask.

In the Patient/Doctor scenario it shouldn't be up to the patient should it? That's unfair.

No, but if the patient can assist, isn't it better that they do so rather than just conceding that the person who is treating them might be about to make them seriously ill.

I would see it as a management and professional issue and that the onus shouldn't be shifted to the patient.

It isn't.

How about rigorous hygiene audits?

Why not just do something simple rather than spending vast sums of money on outside consultancy firms that could be spent on patient care?



The other point that is being missed here is that lots of patients want to ask, but are unsure if it is acceptable to do so. This campaign re-assures them that it is.

[Cookie68]

Why not just do something simple rather than spending vast sums of money on outside consultancy firms that could be spent on patient care?

Hygiene audits, which could be carried out by an internal unit, needn't be that expensive. They could cover more than the medical professional's hands. It would cover floors, ceilings, medical instruments, toilets, beds, showers etc etc. The results could determine the suitability of cleaning contractors the next time the contract goes to tender.

Would it be possible that hand washing is a bit of a red herring? That the real problem is cleaning everything that hands come into contact with in hospitals?